January 23, 2007

FLASH: Cash-back mortgage fraud scam sweeping Arizona (and the US): "could erode confidence and values in Arizona's real estate market"


ARIZONA HOUSING IMPLOSION CODE RED!!!!

Nice again to see the MSM (and the lazy Catherine Reagor!) FINALLY reporting on the meat of the housing bubble ponzi scheme, although the cat is way out of the bag now.

Greg Swann's Phoenix Arizona may in the end be the epicenter of not just the housing bubble, but also mortgage fraud. Why? Because there are no real jobs in Phoenix. Just a bunch of high school GED's gaming the system with mortgage fraud, fake appraisals, and the REIC spinning out of control.

Oh, man, this is going to end so ugly. Someone get the paddywagon, we got a bunch of 'em to put in jail when this is over. And billions, if not trillions, in fraudulent loans. Fannie, Freddie, hedge funds, Countrywide shareholders and China should be a bit nervous right about now.

Valley fighting mortgage fraud wave

A wave of mortgage fraud is rippling through pockets of the Valley, inflating home values through scams called cash-back deals.

Left unchecked, cash-back deals cost homeowners and lenders millions of dollars and could erode confidence and values in Arizona's real estate market.

The fraud involves obtaining a mortgage for more than a home is worth and pocketing the extra money in cash. Neighbors may then discover home values in the area are exaggerated.

Homeowners stuck with overpriced mortgages may never recover the difference. And lenders end up with bad loans that, in the long run, could hurt the Arizona real estate market, the largest segment of the state economy.

"Arizona was like a housing gold rush for speculators from California, Florida and Texas a few years ago," said Detroit real estate agent and fraud activist Ralph Roberts, author of the book Flipping Houses for Dummies. "But home prices stopped climbing, and speculators got greedy. Now the cash-back scam is going to make the savings and loan crisis of the 1980s look like a soft landing"

Valley housing-market experts now believe home values are inflated anywhere from 10 to 40 percent.

71 comments:

Anonymous said...

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"Mortgage fraud in the Valley has become so prevalent people think it's a normal business practice," said Amy Swaney, a mortgage banker with Premier Financial Services and past president of the Arizona Mortgage Lenders Association.

Anonymous said...

Cash-back deals rely on an inflated appraisal so the buyer can secure a mortgage for more than the actual sale price. In cash-back deals, usually the buyer, appraiser, a mortgage broker and real estate agent are in on the scheme and split the extra cash

Anonymous said...

more from the article:

Beyond the money that lenders lose, the most devastating effect for everyone living in the region is the inflation of home values.

The value of a house is determined in large part by the "comps," or comparable prices at which homes recently sold in a neighborhood. Buyers, sellers and real estate agents rely on comps as the benchmark for setting fair home prices. Their reliability is a foundation of the home-sale industry.

When home values are inflated:


• Owners can owe more money on their mortgage than the home is worth.


• Owners who try to sell their home may find few buyers or have to sell at a loss.


• Owners who struggle with significant debt may lose their home to foreclosure.


• Neighbors lose value on their homes.

Anonymous said...

such great stuff in this story!

"Arizona was like a housing gold rush for speculators from California, Florida and Texas a few years ago," said Detroit real estate agent and fraud activist Ralph Roberts, author of the book Flipping Houses for Dummies. "But home prices stopped climbing, and speculators got greedy. Now the cash-back scam is going to make the savings and loan crisis of the 1980s look like a soft landing

Anonymous said...

"said Detroit real estate agent and fraud activist Ralph Roberts"

This Ralph Roberts is too much...not only is he a first class A-hole in person(used to see him at Paul'S Chophouse in Michigan drunk as a skunk)

He also lost his mortgage license in Michigan for fraudulent deals!!!

No kiddin! He's about as fraudulent as they come...google it.

Anonymous said...

The lenders don't give a sh@t about a shotty appraisal.They simply sell the loan to a happy china man who is loaded with us dollars thanks to all the walmart shoppers.This is getting real interesting folks.

Thank the casey serins of the world for this mess.These losers need to go back to flipping burgers,changeing oil and greeting the toothless at walmart.

Anonymous said...

"It is claimed that as many as 5000 residential home loans may go into foreclosure status within the next several months as a result of the alleged fraud."


The law firm of Ackerman, Cowles & Lindsley filed a lawsuit against several real estate companies and professionals along with other purported investment groups. The suit alleges that some 400 or more investors were brought into a real estate "flipping" and "skimming" scheme operated by Jovane Investments, Stonewood Consulting, Inc., Pacific Wealth Management LLC (Nevada) and others. It is claimed that as many as 5000 residential home loans may go into foreclosure status within the next several months as a result of the alleged fraud.

Temecula, CA (PRWEB) January 14, 2007 -- The Temecula law firm of Ackerman, Cowles & Lindsley filed a 1.2 billion dollar claim against what are alleged to be the perpetrators of a vast real estate and currency exchange scheme taking place in Southern California.

Riverside County Superior Court Case No. RIC463483 (Anonymous Investor v. Jovane Investments, et al.) was filed by an investor who claims to have suffered $3,000,000 in damages on her case alone. The plaintiff seeks to have the matter certified as a class action later this year because there are another alleged 400 investors in the alleged scheme.

The amended complaint, filed on January 12, 2007, alleges that the operators of the Jovane Investment firm of Murrieta, and related businesses, including Stonewood Consulting, Inc., Pacific Wealth Management LLC (Nevada), Oetting Enterprises, and Sunburst Financial Systems, Inc., engaged in a real estate scheme involving perhaps as many as 5000 home loans in the Southern California region. The defendants are alleged to have incited members of the general public. members of the military, and nursing staff at Rancho Springs Community Hospital in Southern California, to get involved in a real estate business whereby "investors" could each become the owners of multiple residential properties throughout the Temecula Valley and Northern San Diego County.

It is alleged in the complaint that defendants allegedly involved in the scheme would artificially inflate the values of the homes, complete 125% loan to value mortgages in certain cases, give escrow kickbacks to sellers who received as much as $100,000 more than an asking price, and sell the investors on the idea of giving up excess proceeds out of the sale to investment companies for a great profit over a period of years. In some cases, $50-60k-a-year salaried employees had mortgage obligations that were more than $20,000.00 a month because they "owned" 5-8 homes. The defendant companies are alleged to have taken money from other investors to pay the mortgages on behalf of plaintiff and others. The scheme is alleged to be a traditional Ponzi scheme.

Additionally, other investors were alleged to have been duped into buying into Iraqi dinar investments where the alleged victims would pay more than sixty times the actual value of the dinars. The victims were allegedly not told about the true value of the dinars and the dinars were allegedly never delivered to the victims.

The allegations were referred to the Riverside County District Attorney's office back in November of 2006. However, according to lead counsel, Richard D. Ackerman, "I am quite certain that the district attorney's office is swamped with thousands of criminal cases and simply has to allocate investigation resources toward violent crime at this time. Justice will eventually prevail. Unfortunately, however, if action is not taken soon, our entire Southern California economy may suffer as a result of the type of practices alleged by the many victims in our case."

All told, it is alleged that the damage to investors, lenders, the county tax rolls, Southern California neighborhoods, and others is far in excess of the 1.2 billion dollars cited in the complaint.

The case has been assigned to Judge Dallas Holmes of the downtown Riverside Superior Court in Riverside, California, for trial. The plaintiff intends on working with alleged victim-lenders and governmental agencies in an effort to prevent hundreds of foreclosures and additional damage as a result of the alleged fraud. The victim lenders are alleged to include Bay Capital Mortgage, Community First Bank, GMAC Mortgage, Suntrust Mortgage, Aurora Loan Services, Home Eq Servicing, and SLS Loan Servicing. Numerous credit card companies are alleged to be affected by the currency scheme as well.

Defendant Pacific Wealth Management LLC and defendant Maurice McLeod, a principal of Pacific Wealth Management LLC, have already been ordered by this same judge to stop all investments activities in California under the name of Pacific Wealth Management LLC. The related case is captioned Pacific Wealth Management LLC v. Pacific Wealth Management LLC, Superior Court of California, Riverside Case No. RIC462505. The injunction order was entered on January 9, 2007.

Anonymous said...

The best quote, and from a MSM article no less:

"Valley housing-market experts now believe home values are inflated anywhere from 10 to 40 percent."

JAFO said...

"Yesterday's telemarketers are todays mortgage brokers" he said.
Freaking hilarious!! They had 1000 valley REIC workers at a conference and most were surprised that this was illegal!! Stop already your killing me. Wonder how Foxwood will spin this one. Anyone who thinks the Phoenix maket is headed anywhere but down is simply not paying attention. Yes I know, I know, people are moving here in droves...fastest growth rate in America...blah blah blah. Tell you what. I live here. I have not seen the masses coming in here in this "buyers" market and bailing it out. Kudos to that corporate rag Republic for doing some actual news. Wonder how long the authors will keep thier jobs.


JAFO

FUNNOMINAL said...

Keith,
From the time I noticed that house prices were escalating far beyond any normal point of valuation for a wasting asset, I've been concerned with one question. And after the last couple of years of perusing these sites, I have yet to find the answer to my question.
WHOSE MONEY IS IT?
We hear all the time that the money lent into the housing stream doesn't belong to your local s & l as in years gone bye. Who as of yet is accountable for these massive and ultimate 'write-downs' of capital?
What will be the ultimate effect on the world capital markets when these billions are 'marked to market'?
But can only point me to some well written article documenting the actual owners of these loans?
WHOSE $$$ IS IT?
Thanks in advance,
Funnominal

Mark in San Diego said...

All this and 51,900 MLS listings (see ziprealty.com). . .last year this time there were only 32,000 listings - the mother of all inventory gluts will be seen in Phoenix by May - 60,000 may be a very conservative estimate. All those Phoenix boat owners here in San Diego are already dumping their boats and vacation condos.

Anonymous said...

They aren't making any more land, and you have to live somewhere!

-RE.Agent

Anonymous said...

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0120mortgagefraud0121.html

Great article !!!

chief_economist said...

Housing will continue to appreciate at 10-12% per year while incomes increase at 3% but it won't matter because real estate defies all the laws of economics. Soon people will be spending 100% of their income on housing and rummage through the dumpsters for food and discarded clothes. If you don't buy now you will be priced out forever just like NAR told you 3 years ago. The window is closing quickly so grab one of those $800,000 houses with a whopping 1200sf in The OC where everybody in the world wants to live.

ttt said...

Dont forget rising insurance and property taxes as a result of RE fraud. These REIC scum are stealing from everybody. The reason nobody is doing anything about it is that all levels of the government is getting their payoff in the form of higher income, business and property taxes.

Anonymous said...

>> Owners who try to sell their home may find few buyers or have to sell at a loss.

What loss? They already pocketed the extra cash!!!

Anonymous said...

gregg
could you please ask your clients to quit losing there shirts
it is causing quite a shirt shortage that prices are expected to increase 40% yoy
im ok though. i bought 4 new shirts in dec on my visa and expect to make a handsome profit

WhiteTower said...

And of course none of this could ever be happening without the Federal Reserve giving away next-to-free credit over a several year period.

It's literally been like a game of Monopoly, funny money and all.

Anonymous said...

This is far and away the most important and illuminating story on how the housing bubble got so big ever. We're in for a crash of historic proportions.

Anonymous said...

GOOD GRIEF! ARE THEY JUST NOW LEARNING OF THIS?

This is happening all over San Diego, ESPECIALLY from new home builders. I work at a bank and was approached to do a cash-back deal for 25% of the purchase agreement. The buyer had to sign a confidentiality agreement agreeing never to disclose this info.

Of course, we wouldn't do the deal, but he found a sub-prime lender willing to do it. Maybe that's just another reason why sub-prime lenders are going BK.

I know it's such a cliche, but the fallout to the real estate market will eventually be
catastrophic, which means another stock market boom and bust is right around the corner. ALL ABOARD ; )

prairiedog said...

I can't believe this article was written by Catherine Reagor. This shows me that she is capable of being a real journalist and not just a lazy REIC mouthpiece.

Housing Wizard said...

And don't let the builders off scott free because alot of these new home tracts were sold to a high % of investors at any price the builders asked .

The problem with easy money is it brings out the crooks every time .

It's not a good statement that many realtors didn't even know it was fraud to get cash kick-backs .

The check and balance system in our financial markets went down the tubes while the MSM and the REIC chanted "real estate always goes up ". This is really scary .

Anonymous said...

The real question is how much more of this is out there?

belchorama said...

Anon Monday, January 22, 2007 2:19:03 AM:

"This is far and away the most important and illuminating story on how the housing bubble got so big ever."

- - - - - - - - -

No, it isn't. This is but one facet of the great housing Ponzi scheme. But if Reagor and the rest of the lazy, incompetent MSM want to use it as an excuse for why they never should have seen this historic correction coming, fine. At least their poorly-researched articles will now end with "experts say prices are inflated 10-40%", as opposed to a year ago, when every one of them ended with "even though only 10% of the population can afford current valuations, a realtor tells us that bubbles are for bath tubs, and that housing will continue to appreciate at at least 5% per year."

Anonymous said...

greg will say the crack addiction made him do it

David said...

""Valley housing-market experts now believe home values are inflated anywhere from 10 to 40 percent."

In general, closer to 40 percent then 10 percent (depending on the location and housing type).

Txengr said...

I received the following email from Jason Penrose in Phoenix when I confronted him about his tactics. He is a lawyer and is offering cashback for mortgages.

"Dude, you need to get a life. No one has "inflated" the purchase price. The home has been appraised at 588K. Do your research and more importantly go out and get laid or something. Damn! What a loser!"

Anonymous said...

A federal task force should be assembled and deployed to Phoenix to uncover ever flim-flam deal and arrest every single appraiser, realtor and mortgage broker involved in this swindle. Thousands may be involved! And that's just Phoenix!

Anonymous said...

"The type of fraud you are seeing in Phoenix is going to spread to other parts of the country."

Wow! As if it wasn't bad enough!

Anonymous said...

Cash Back is also very prevalent in the Seattle market.

I suspect it's happening everywhere to some degree.

I believe that Bernanke even mentioned it in a speech a couple months back as just *one* of the problems that was hiding the true natutre of the RE decline.

Anonymous said...

"Soon people will be spending 100% of their income on RE and rummaging through dumpsters for food and clothing.."

Truer words were never spoken. Know a few people who are darn close to that scenario right now.

So much for putting money into the rest of the economy. Pretty soon people won't even be able to afford shopping at the dollar stores.

But they'll be living in d$mn nice houses!

Anonymous said...

"The type of fraud you are seeing in Phoenix is going to travel to other parts of the country"..

Hello!!! It's already in every part of the country!! Check out Craigslist! Insert the words "Cash Back" in your RE search.

And that's just on one selling venue. This mess is everywhere.

Houses are gonna get cheap. Thank the Lord.

GK said...

Ha Ha! My favorite foreclosures site that used to list the total number of foreclosures (1.825 Million as last viewing) has remove the total number from their website!!

http://www.foreclosures.com/

Censorship lives!

Jayman1957 said...

I just sent an E-mail to a Phoenix Realtor who advertises fraud right on is website Excellent!!!

simply cut and paste some quotes from this article

Anonymous said...

How should China be nervous? They're in the cat-bird seat. While asset prices will be in a deflationary spiral down, they have dollars to spend. They'll step in and buy up distressed businesses and real estate (hey, why not turn empty condo buildings into Chinese public housing?) at fire sale prices. And don't think the U.S. government will be able to print like mad- foreign debt and dollar holders will hit the market with dollars and dollar-denominated debt in a massive dump, detroying the greenback's value. So it's big a great party the last few years, but the result is the U.S. has lost it's independence...

Anonymous said...

We all knew this was going on after Taiwan Lee got busted in Colorado. Guess this blog completely missed that story...

Markus Arelius said...

Greed can be a powerful ally.

Anonymous said...

This should be no surprise as Phoenix and it surrounding metro area is finding its
own level. Basically, a repository of mediocre poorly
educated bottom-feeders seeking cheap banal living.
This souless mix of transients, budget seniors,tatooed
misfits,real estate grifters,toothless white trash
tweakers, minimum wage job seekers and pseudo
Scottsdale millionaires has created a major population
center that masquarades as a major metropolis but is
really one big cow town.
A bleak barren landscape with terrible weather,traffic
congestion, bad air, stuffed with ugly stucco houses
and big box retailers peddling Chinese crap, corporate
food, and a dumbed down semi-literate citizenry,
Phoenix metro epitomizes the lowest commom denominator
of American cities.
If somehow, by either plan or accident, you're living
in metro Phoenix, you rank on the bottom rungs of the
intelligence charts. The only reason to be here
(temporarily), is if you're making a decent income
(absolute min. 250k per yr). Anything less is not
worth it, as your health, mental well being and
personal esteem will deeply suffer by living in this
genetic cesspool of half-breeds.
As someone posted here before,
Metro Phoenix, AZ:
"There is no there, there".

bubbleglum said...

I'm reposting this from Ben's blog on the subject yesterday.

Craigslist number of “cash-back” appearing in RE listings by city 1-21-07

Phoenix 529
Denver 254
Chicago 120
Dallas 230
Boston 78
Las Vegas 306
Los Angeles 204
Miami 339
Minneapolis 240
New York NY 205
Orange County CA 236
Sacramento 68
San Diego 62
Seattle 175
SF bay area 147
WA DC 171
Atlanta 434
Portland 44
Philadelphia 183

gt said...

this is fun. i created a new email address to email those craigslisters asking them for advice on how i can get the cash back since it is illegal.

Anonymous said...

Did it ever occur to you folks that many of these cash back deals probably don't have legitimate buyers? Once the cash is in their hands, they exit stage left, and the house goes into foreclosure in a couple of months.

Crooked buyer then pays vig to the usual suspects, who are SHOCKED, SHOCKED!, when their liar-loan buyer disappears and the house goes back on the market.

Rinse and repeat.

Dr Housing Bubble said...

52,000 here we come. This is step two in the housing bubble burst. Inventory up but prices still remaining stubborn.

Check out Southern California if you think this is only happening in Arizona:

Dr. Housing Bubble

Charlie said...

I sold my house in Queen Creek last month after being on the market since May. This house appraised for 232K in July. I finally sold for 155K, down from an original price of 219K. I was fortunate to buy in 2003 before the massive price increases and not lose money.

That being said, when I set the lower price, the vultures came out. Most wanted to put 500 earnest money so they could tie my house up and try to flip it in 30 days while I have the carrying expenses. Another want 10K back even at the low price. He said he could buy any house in Phoenix and get 10K cash back. I told him to go buy these other houses.

Anonymous said...

From $232 down to $155 selling? Man, that's a $77k haircut, or 33%!

Someone tell Greg Swann the game is up!

Anonymous said...

This article will be the straw that breaks the camel's back in Arizona.

No one can spin this away. It'a all out in the open now.

Oh what will the Realtor's say to sellers now? (just start by dropping your price 10-40%?)

Did this make the front page of the Print edition?

Darnell da Realuhter said...

Yo yo,

You's is all rappin' smack, mah' man. 'S coo', bro. Some fool said it right, dey ain't makin no mo' land, ya' dig? Mah' indicato's show dat real estate be goin' up 10-12% dis summa' alone! Right on!

All uh ya' losers dat say de game be ova' are plum dta - losers! Right on! Man ah' gots'ta tell ya' how sweet it be to be some real-uh-ter.

Ah be baaad... ah' gots me mah' Navigato', mah' 22's, sweet ride. Just keep on sellin'. Dat's mah' motto. 'S coo', bro. You's losers dig out uh de way, dere is deals t'be made.

Word

Anonymous said...

EVERYONE GET OVER TO GREG SWANNS BLOG AND POST QUOTES AND LINKS TO THIS ARTICLE AND BLOG!

http://www.bloodhoundrealty.com/BloodhoundBlog/

THE TRUTH MUST GET OUT!

RipeDurian said...

Don't go to Swannies blog,

that's what he wants.

It thrills him to have people read his beatific prose.

Let him shrivel in silence.

Anonymous said...

I'll bet $1 it was Swann who posted that "go to Swann's blog" post!

Don't go - the guy's a fake

Anonymous said...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAH
The end of the game is approaching very fast. It is like a tiger waiting to pounce it's suckers.

Anonymous said...

What matters is not just who "owns" the loans, but who absorbs the credit risk.

It used to be that if you owned a loan, you both owned the nominal cash flow as well as the credit risk that such wouldn't be paid.

Now, everything is sliced and moved around into individual pieces, credit and income considerations are separated.

So the owners of hte mortgage-backed-securities might have to bear credit risk---but many of the contracts that they bought them from can stipulate that if there is fraud (or a certain %age of fraud on the pool) then owners of the security will not have to take the risk.

It's not always clear who would---perhaps the securitizing lender would have to buy it pack at par? I really don't know globally---the details are very complicated. But the Chinese may not be as screwed as some people may secretly hope.

Lots of opportunities for the legal knives to be unsheathed.

Phoenician said...

catherine reagor was interviewed this morning on NPR here in phoenix. i used to despise her, but i have a new found respect for her. she also said that no matter what, cash backs are illegal. all involved are breaking the law, including the sellers.

this is making big waves here in phoenix. i even got an email from my realtor asking if i had seen the article.

there is no longer any doubt that phoenix home prices are artificial, and will fall, hard.

Anonymous said...

Phoenician,

Is there a podcast of that broadcast? I am with you on opinions changing,but still she knows where her bread is buttered. So it is not just about talking up the RE biz anymore because now she has a boogey man to go after (it could not be the industry as a whole, right?). And from what the fairly well written piece (and lengthy) said this has hurt many people, so she is going to have a populist support for her on this. It will also sell alot of newspapers. I just hope she does not claim it as her own, bloggers have been on this awhile now. I would hope that she is one of the lurkers/contributors here and that she is a little more collaborative.

BTW, my BiL who was quoted by her last week met her at the ULI conference in PHX 2 weeks ago and said she looks much nicer than her column picture conveys.

Metroplexual said...

BTW,

blogger is screwing up when i sign in with my identity.

Never mind I found the podcast site with Reagor.


http://tinyurl.com/24gg64

preview TinyURL:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/24gg64


metroplexual

Todd Tarson said...

This is a huge problem and a bigger black eye if it can be proven that huge amounts of sales have been done in this manner.

A prominent designated broker at one of the largest brokerages in Phoenix authored a letter that appeared in last months Arizona Realtor Digest (a magazine for members of the AAR in Arizona).

In his letter he stated that brokers have given notice to agents on this practice for months in firm publications and it has been announced on the ARMLS bulletin board.

He recently severed a few agents that blatantly disregarded the brokers directive to NOT participate in this type of sale. All offending agents were reported to the department of real estate and to the department of financial institution of Arizona, and is anticipating a termination from real estate and severance of license.

Now I'm not saying that all real estate clerks are angels or anything like that. The broker I mentioned above has over 13,000 agents in his company. They severed 2 or 3 (I've heard the number may be a few more) agents and he is (and other prominent brokers) championing an effort to see that licensed agents in Arizona do not fall into this scam.

I think it will be important to find out how many transactions have been carried out in the scam. I'm willing to bet the number is pretty low and doesn't affect the vast valley's home pricing as much as it is being sensationalized here and in the media.

What needs to be done is an investigation by the attorney general into this matter. The hooligans that are guilty of this scam need to be heavily fined and perhaps even serve some jail time.

Anonymous said...

How cares how she looks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????

Anonymous said...

"The hooligans that are guilty of this scam need to be heavily fined and perhaps even serve some jail time".

HOOLIGANS..?!? Nobody says hooligans man. How old are you?? Upper 80s?

Anonymous said...

Why is it illegal? If the bank knows they are lending 500K and that is what it is appraised for and the bank is OK with that....if you can buy it for less...than how is it different than:

Buying the house for 400K
getting it appraised for 500K
getting a HELOC for 100K?

You're just doing it all at the same time, at closing.

Of course the appraisal could be fraud. But it could be fraud in case 2 above with the HELOC. So what's the difference?

Phoenician said...

here is the link to the catherine reagor interview on our local NPR segment this morning in phoenix -

http://tinyurl.com/25z5a8

Anonymous said...

OK, I guess I can see that a cash back screws up the comps, whereas a HELOC doesn't.

Plus the HELOCing bank would have to wonder why the appraisal justifying the HELOC is so much more than the just completed sale.

Anonymous said...

Retstern says

Is cash-back on the sale illegal for existing homes but legal for new homes? The use of cash back by builders is widespread according to my google search.

stuckinthecity said...

The fraud involves obtaining a mortgage for more than a home is worth and pocketing the extra money in cash. Neighbors may then discover home values in the area are exaggerated.
----------

Gee, really??

stuckinthecity said...

Anonymous said...
"The type of fraud you are seeing in Phoenix is going to spread to other parts of the country."

Wow! As if it wasn't bad enough!

Monday, January 22, 2007 6:45:56 AM
-------------

Cash out re-fi's are done everywhere, not just in SD or Phnx.

Here in Chicago, a couple of close friends have done them. Neither did it for the right reasons.

seattle price drop said...

Very interesting comment above relating "Cash Backs " and foreclosures. You may be on to something there.

Wow. These people stop at nothing to make a buck! What a freaking scam. And to think it's all been happening in plain sight.

I noticed several properties on the MLS last year that looked as though they were being "flipped among friends". Really crappy POS's in bad locations that were sold and resold every few months for increasing amounts of cash, up to absurd levels.

In the meantime, the # of foreclosures in that 'hood have gone from 45 last year to 295 this year.

Here's a piece of the mess that even I never thought of.

I wonder if any of the RE seminars ever discussed this strategy as a way to make $$ off of RE?

I'm thinking the price of RE is going to fall further than any of us ever dreamed possible. And I was already in the 50% at the minimum off crowd.

So fess up, flippers, any of you hear about this "money making technique " at a seminar?

Anonymous said...

Go see Rachel Dollar's Mortgage Fraud Blog for a lot of what's going on in the fraud arena. Some lawyers are going to have a lot of work for a long time to come. The cases she puts on the blog come from all over the country and involve large networks of individuals. What is playing out is akin to going into the room of a house that has cockroaches and throwing on a light switch in the middle of the night!

Anonymous said...

"Cash out re-fi's are done everywhere, not just in SD or Phnx."

Is the subject 'existing owners' cash out refis OR 'new home buyers' inflating prices at closing.

FYI..cash out refis are legal as far as I know.

LauraVella said...

Ripedurian said:"Let him shrivel in silence.


Agree. He already has enough rope.

dan said...

"They aren't making any more land, and you have to live somewhere!"

Realtwhores regularly spout this line and they're TOTALLY wrong. Land was and still is being created all the time.

Landfilling to extend shorelines has been a worldwide practice for centuries.
NYC has had extensive acreage added to it. Tokyo is 80% landfill ...and counting. Dubai is creating palm-shaped peninsulas and island combos.

James said...

The Phoenix Market is on fire... Our listing are selling like ht cakes. For the prior year we all were seeing about 1 out 8 homes listed sell. Now two things are happening (A) a ton of homes cancelled or expired and did not relist (B) a ton of fixed up homes are selling. Our listings are selling in record time right now. People who get stuck int he now forget we all have been through this before. AZ repeats itself every ten years. Nothing new about this market- just a little more technolgy involved. This spring and summer will have great appreciation. Platinum Real Estate Group, LLC

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Anonymous said...

Let ssay you got cash back at closing and you didn't know if was fraud and you find out after that it is fraud and you decide to report it what will happen.