In some way, this is funny. You know why? Because no bank owns that loan (thank you Freddie and Fannie and commoditized loans). Nobody in his town will be worse for the wear. Nope, it's China, or a hedge fund who'll be "eating keys". Ha.
Ha ha ha ha.
Wife and I decided to stop paying our "rip off" ARM loan.
How long will the bank let us live here? Got the moving van scheduled to move my stuff to a storage unit in my mother-in-laws name, and the keys are ready to be mailed in.
I'm up rooting all the plants I planted, and taking all the improvements off. "scorched earth" policy is to be enacted. Got my trailer all out fitted to move to my buddies lot in the Sierras, and I'll be fly fishing will Rome burns.
Let them eat keys! Hope the Fed. and chairman B. are listening.
- Upside down in Cal.
September 09, 2006
"Let them eat keys" - this HP'er decides to stop paying his loan, wait it out as long as he can, then head to the hills
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Love it got a family member who has dropped out and the best part they can't go after him, because he owes way way too much. You can't fine him, you can't take anything from him. Oh in case you wondered he's hunting in Montana right now in a 5th wheel trailer and new truck. We'll see more of this as things get to hard to pay or jobs slow down.
If only you did listen to Kieth when he said "BUY GOLD".
ROFLMAO
Here are the facts - rates are lower. IT IS HIS CREDIT RATING WHICH IS HIGHER.
Loser will always be a round. Good times Bad Times, we will always have our share.
Anonymous said...
Love it got a family member who has dropped out and the best part they can't go after him, because he owes way way too much. You can't fine him, you can't take anything from him. Oh in case you wondered he's hunting in Montana right now in a 5th wheel trailer and new truck. We'll see more of this as things get to hard to pay or jobs slow down
Got the same scenario. My family member has been sticking it to uncle, state, SS, etc. for over thirty years. As long as you OWE and not OWN, you are invinvible.
They can't touch you, and won't bother to try. We will definitely see a lot more of this.
Yeah, you show that mortgage company that stuck a gun to your head and made you take out that "rip-off ARM".
Screw the lender, destroy the house, you are the victim here and have no personal responsibility whatsoever.
wonder how many people are out there getting one last round of $$$ from refi's, buying stuff they can store away from creditors (coins, jewelry, etc) or cash in safe deposit boxes, and plan on just walking away, turning in the keys?
HEY !...You CAN'T DO THAT!
We'd Rather have you OWE us FOR the MoneyPit than CHEAT us OUT of THAT!
Comeeeee Backkkk Shane ..Shane...
LOSER LOSER LOSER everywhere you look is another LOSER.
Am I living in the same world as you folks?
I bought a house with a thirty year mortgage. LIKE EVERYONE, credit card companies offer me zero percent cards for a year. I took advantage of one card my first year. Had them pay $10,000 off on another card I had that had $1,000 in debt. With the $9,000 surplus check I then paid down my house. Took advatage of the zero percent on the card to pay it down over a year. Got it down to $3,000. Next year I was offered another zero percent from another card. I took the zero and had $10,000 tranfer to my other credit card. Took the $7,000 surplus check and put into my mortgage. It's been a while since I seen the zero percent offers. Then suddenly - BOOM - they are back. I now have $2,800 on my credit card. If I borrow another $10,00 at zero percent. That will leave me with $7,200 more down on my house.
I keep hearing the horrer stories on interest rates. But in my world I down $16,000 of mortgage debt, plus my regular payment of $4,000 in debt, then there were the tax benifts I rolled back into the house for $8,000. My credit card debt has remain at chump change level with no interest rates charges for years.
Buy a cheap house - pay it off fast. You can't lose if the house gets paid off and you have all that equity that cost you next to nothing to position yourself for.
Despite all the money juggling - my monthly payments is about twice that of a renter's, but I am on track for total ownership within twelve years from the purchase date. Plus there is the issue of lifestyle. How anyone over 40 can asnwe to a landlord is beyond me. How can I lose. How can anybody lose with today's low rates?
Yes, there will be price deflation in housing causing a huge loss of business activity and tax receipts causing an explosion in the US trade deficit and current account deficit in the face of increasing Federal spending and national debt. Following this will be a drop in the dollar. If you choose to ignore all of the structural imbalances of our currency that have been growing at an unprecedented since the final unhinging of our dollar to Gold in 1971, you may believe that a collapse in our economy will cause the worldwide exchange rates for dollars to improve. This thinking ignores common sense. The dollar is the common stock of America and when you have a failing company the demand for its stock will fall. If the rates rise in an attempt increase demand this will only further slow business activity and continue this downward spiral. Any hint of the imaginary deflation scenario will be aggressively inflated into oblivion by the Federal Government in collusion with Helicopter Ben and the Central Bankers, new deal one, new deal two and next we have new deal three? Why would anyone think that they could not or would not do it again? PSSST The dollar is a primary driver of the price of Gold. As Richard Daughty
said: For the last 5,000 years in a row, all the people who needed an answer to that question always came back to gold, because there IS nothing else. But many will come to appreciate that fact too, too late.
Uncle SAM sent billions to Iraq .
Foregave billions of debt .
They can foregive yours
Ur SINs and debt is now forgiven.
Sincerly,
Uncle Sam
"Let them eat the keys." I hope Mr. Upside down in California doesn’t loose his shirt with this plan. I’m sure he’s not the only one to decide on cutting the losses. Eventually we may see a repeat of the FDR New Deal “Home Owners Loan Corporation”. “Established in 1933 under President Franklin Roosevelt. Its purpose was to refinance homes to prevent foreclosure. Through its work it granted long term mortgages to over a million people facing the loss of their homes. HOLC also bailed out mortgage-holding banks.”
The intelligent person understands what drove the Gold price over the last 35 years and bases their decisions on that understanding. "Past performance is no guarantee of future results." To sum it up for you "It's the Dollar _." The is more to it, but I don’t have the time right now.
I know this isn't the Dr. Phil Message Board but
do you think people look down on renters?
We have been waiting out this overinflated market
and renting a nice 2 bedroom apt. in a coastal city
in Los Angeles. I can't tell you how many eyebrows
it raises that we are renting. My saavy financial
advisor forbid us from buying at the tippy top of the market. I have never been one to keep up with the Joneses but I do understand the impulse because people are so instant gratification oriented and pass judgment on renters.
Most of our children's friends have homes in the million dollar range and many bought when there
were mass bidders and serious overbidding.
I know we are being smart but it is hard not to feel
"lesser than". We plan to buy in 2 years at the bottom and maybe my sentiments will change.
Are any other renters experiencing this?
Mr. Upside Down in Cal is at least honest and has come to real terms. Although he maybe grieving now, but he'll recover soon and move on with his life, which is more precious than anything in this planet earth. Life is incapable of pecuniary estimation.
Let's not ridicule Mr. Upside down more than he has already endure. Unlike others who are still in DENIAL, at least he is man enough to accept his plight.
Mr. Upside down in Cal, here's one for you;
"I have prepared myself for this race and if I win, things will be great; but if I don't win; my friends will still be my friends; my enemies will still be my enemies; and the world will still be a the same." - Anonymous
Upside Down in CA:
Take the cash you saved from not making this month's house payment, and go see an experienced bankruptcy attorney to weave you through the debt repudiation process. If the mortgage lender forgives the debt, you may have "phantom income" and owe tax on it. If you declare BK first, the debt will be wiped out before they can stick you with the phantom income.
This is just one of many issues you need to consider. Nothing is as simple as it seems. Get professional assistance.
People should be responsiblr for their debts.
People who file go broke and reneg on their debts are the same people that caused this housing boom.
IMHO, their should be consequences(not jail time)....but something.
Nobody put a gun to their head, and made you sign on the dotted line.
On the other side of the coin...shifty mortgage companies and their CEO's should be taken straight to prison.
Up side down
If you were a corporation you could file Ch. 11. Then screw your employees out of their pensions, and land with that "golden parachut" in your Sierra hide away. But that hide away would be at least 100 acres with a trout stream and hunting lodge! The hypocracy of our laws!
Alan Greenspan created more inflation than ever before in history.
This systen screws you, screw it back.
All theis "honorable" dialogue.........see how failly the system has treated you.
Screw the banks, blow off your debts, file bk....do it again. This is the new American way.
Turn the country over to the illegal aliens.........
"Turn the country over to the illegal aliens..." Be careful, because you might just get what you've wished for. Wouldn't it be something if the illegals will turn our economy around for the better, if we can't get our sh't together? LOL (not a big fan of illegals though)
I hope they bring back debtors prison. The only thing I hate more than a flipper is a loser that walks out on obligations. You are credit Fucked for life because you wanted it all and you wanted it now. Have a nice life loser..
When people ask if I rent or own, I glower and go on a rant about the housing bubble, and say how stupid it would be to buy. They are probably sorry they asked. I'm on my own, and don't care what anyone thinks.
I truly got a kick out of home ownership. No one was more house proud than me, and I especially like fixing things and building stuff. But the list of things you *don't* need when renting is amazing. Pretty much the entire Sunday supplement - patio furnture, lawn & garden, tools, appliances - on and on!
Saw a condo ad today that said "start living". Yet with so little material attachment, I have more time for exercise, reading, spending time with friends and family, hobbies and contemplation of things that matter. That ad is playing on insecurities and the confusion between status symbols, aquisitiveness, and getting the most out of life.
A civil society requires that most people obey laws, pay their bills, and lead moral lives. It might be funny to hear stories like Let Them Eat Keys, but if enough of your neighbors drop out and take that path, there aren't enough police or soldiers in this country to stop the mayhem that will ensue.
We will end up with a police state and tyranny, what fun.
Law of the Commons applies to both flippers and, I'm afraid, most of these people bailing. Some people made a forturne and retired young thanks to the housing bubble. But that was at the expense of pricing regular folks out of the market and pushing the whole economy to the brink, not to mention leaving the bigger fools hodling the bag.
Part of me wants to cheer this guy on, and certainly there are going to be some people who turn in the keys not as a power move, but just because they're sunk.
In truth, the victims of this 'victimless' crime may be the whole rest of society, no?
stick it to the man!
...but you are the man.
to the gold posters: owning gold is not an investment. it's wealth protection.
:We will end up with a police state and tyranny
America is not Europe. There will never be a sustained uprising of the masses. The police state, to some extent, is already in place.
Throughout Europe's recent (and even back throughout the age of enlightenment), there were uprisings all over the place. People there are more vociferous and tend to gather often in pubs to discuss politics than NFL highlights. Americans, however, only gather at sporting events to discuss esoteric subjects like a Packers Dynasty or the effects of Allen Iverson on streetball handlers.
In the US, however, there were momentary blow ups like a Miners strike, an urban riot, a VFW encampment in DC, etc, however, the military always disperses the crowd and jails the leaders of these events. And in the case of the LA riots, they just prevent the rioters from entering Beverley Hills to let the slums rot away.
The average Joe six pack, being a cultural conformist, will never fight for too long and even as a poor man, he'll be content in being vagabond in a state park, fishing, and picking up roadkill from time to time than in fighting the system. And since there's enough forest around for poor people to disperse into, it shouldn't take too long for a new equilibrium to emerge.
Mr Upside Down is a perfect example of America in decline.
No ethics, no sense of doing what is right or keeping his word.
The rules don't apply to Mr Upside Down you see, unless they benefit him. Just like Bush thinks the laws don't apply to him either.
It's endemic in today's America.
dark days ahead folks
Mr Upside Down is a perfect example of America in decline.
"No ethics, no sense of doing what is right or keeping his word.
The rules don't apply to Mr Upside Down you see, unless they benefit him. Just like Bush thinks the laws don't apply to him either.
It's endemic in today's America.
dark days ahead folks"
__________________________________
You're reading my mind. This nation has become so corrupt on ALL levels that I don't see how it can continue to exist in its present form. It's really sad....
:This nation has become so corrupt on ALL levels that I don't see how it can continue to exist in its present form.
Guys, have you forgotten about Brazil, Argentina, Mexico?
The US has plenty of continental counterparts to mirror itself after, moving forward. Brazil is a lot like the States, a so-called melting pot of numerous nationalities, lots of ghettos (a.k.a. favelas), rampant crime, gentrified neighborhoods/gated communities, exploiting natural resources for quick buck, and corruption at all levels of govt and commerce.
If it weren't for soccer, carnival, and hot women, it would be more a hell hole than an exotic locale for fun.
Right on upside down. I'd let the homeless move into the place so the banks can do something good for once. Is there more room for my family up in the Sierras? Send Greenspan the keys! He's responsible for this mess!
Ethics in amarica! Give me a brake. Go tell that to Enron, Global Crossing, United Airlines and the other robber baron corporations. There's the haves and the have nots. They want the little guys to play by the rules and not them! American hypocracy!
Got mine and didn't play by their rules.
You might be waiting longer than you expect. Back in 1992 in Los Angeles I ran into an acquaintance of mine who also stopped paying his mortgage after he lost his job in 1989. He had been living in that house for over two years waiting for forclosure but nothing happened. I knew a woman who worked at the bank which held the mortgage and aksed her about it. She told me that in many cases the bank had not foreclosed because they knew that they could not recover their money in the forseeable future and that if they had forclosed they would then become responsible for the property taxes in addition to being stuck on the mortgage. I didn't look into this any further but it has always amused me that he lived there rent free for two years.
One thing I read and am pretty sure is true is if they foreclose on your house and auction it off for less than you owe, the bank notifies the IRS and you get a 1099C (forgiveness of debt)and have to report that amount as income on your tax return for that year.
"You might be waiting longer than you expect."
When I paid my property taxes I asked our tax collector about that. What happens when you don't pay the property taxes and NOBODY will buy your property at auction, even for a dollar? There were other people in the office at the time, so he laughed and said: Somebody always owns it! And we can go after them to get the taxes owed. I got to talking to another official in the office and forgot about it. After the line cleared and we were alone in the office again he came over and told me (known him since we were kids) there were over 300 properties last year in our district alone
that were classified as "uncollectable", and that’s not something the higher ups want made known and broadcast over the airways. He won't know until the end of the year what the total of "uncollectables" will be for this year, but it’s already past last year’s total. This was back in May. This has been going on for years, and he thinks its going to get a lot worse.
The greed of the tax gods, with skyrocketing property taxes to support their salary increases and pet projects, my come back to haunt them sooner than they realize. They always figure they will be out of office when the bill comes due.There are no debtor's prisons in this country. earlier anon's spoke about being untouchable when you don't have anything for the government to seize. The same thing applies when you do have something, and nobody will give a dime/damn for it. This could be the catalyst to rethink the property tax structure in this land.
"the IRS and you get a 1099C (forgiveness of debt)and have to report that amount as income on your tax return for that year."
Yep, and then the IRS dockets your pay for the rest of your life until those taxes are paid off.
There is a proposed bill to deny PASSPORTS to dead beat debtors under certain circumstances, including those in which Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac can alledge fraud. Student loan defaults are part of this, too. Passports are already denied to "dead beat" fathers, so this isn't much of a logical leap, actually.
It might be fun to go fishing in the mountains or whatever, but not having a passport will mean that you are trapped and cannot leave the country.
This person sums up perfectly what is wrong with the whole system on both sides of the game.
Personal accountability...and the lack thereof.
Nobody made you take out an ARM. And now you just walk away and while flipping everyone off.
So take your medicine like a man.....
The morals and ethics of American society have gone to Hell in a hand basket. Until this "F u" attitude changes expect things to only get worse, not better.
Dam rite.The guy owes bigtime on a underwater house,wifey has maxed out the plastic.Sounds like a really responsible bunch.Berak out the violins and hankys.
Sold the house, put the money in the bank and "I" bonds and hit the road as a full time RV'er. Love this lifestyle!
Chaps;How much did you cash out on your house to be able to become a FT RV'r? Did you allready have the RV?
If you owe the bank ten thousand dollars, you have a problem..If you owe the bank 750 thousand, the bank has a problem. If you owe and take a page from the illegal mexicans that are an economic, soon so be political occupying force in much of the US southwest, and go totally underground, fake ID, stolen social security number, and no valid paper trail, you control the end game. I say buy a fixer upper cabin in Idaho for cash out of the HELOC on your HP abode, salvage and remove the heater, plumbing, windows appliances and anything else you can use to finish your new retreat, which is deeded in fee to one of your alias ID's (try Ramon Jesus Garcia or something that no skip tracer can follow due to the illegal mexican problem.
Hit the friggen restart button and its all good!
:It might be fun to go fishing in the mountains or whatever, but not having a passport will mean that you are trapped and cannot leave the country.
Yeah, because we all now how difficult it is to scale the ginormous walls surrounding our country.
So what you're saying anon is for people to get their passport first! That's some good intel.
Before this is all over I think there are going to be thousands of "upside down" stories. I know of several that are in his situation. I can't see them paying off a loan for $500k when the house is worth $100k less! Not this generation!
Get enough money out of your house and you can get a foriegn passport and the Fed's (as stoges for the corrupt lenders) can not hold you hostage. Take the bubble funds and do what the US treasury does: print your own baseless money and use it for your version of 'homeland security".
For example btaining citizenship in Argentina is relatively straightforward. The first step is to obtain your visa, which will allow you to live in the country for one year on a temporary residence permit. When the year has expired, the visa can be extended for an additional year. At the end of the second year, the visa can be extended again for another year. At the end of the third year, you can extend the visa again and receive permanent residency. At this point you will be legally entitled to reside in the Argentina permanently. Two years after receiving your permanent residency, you may apply for citizenship.
As the fascism in the US gets worse, expect some will escape:
http://www.escapeartist.com/passports/passports.htm
Think you can move big chunks of cash out of the U.S. easily? Better think again. If a DHS computer suspects you are moving the money to avoid taxes (or you match a growing list of other "suspicious" activities), they can impound the funds. You then get to hire an attorney to try and get the money back.
The smart money moved their goodies offshore long ago. It's too late now for most people to do it legally.
wonder how many people are out there getting one last round of $$$ from refi's, buying stuff they can store away from creditors (coins, jewelry, etc) or cash in safe deposit boxes, and plan on just walking away, turning in the keys?
Well, in most places, they will get sued by the lenders for the balance. Then it only works to declare bankruptcy---and if you don't admit to the fungible assets like the cash or gold in the safe deposit box---that is bankruptcy fraud, and probably a federal felony.
I'd advise a safe deposit box in a foreign country. Does Canadian Customs search you for gold bars?
I believe that many unsuspecting borrowers fell into the bank's trap of looking at the in-house appraisals that inflated the price of their tract home, then borrowed against this "sham" amount. They fell victim to the fraud. So as victims I see no problem just giving it back to the bank. They say it's worth that much, so they can sell it for the amount of their appraisal. Upside down is the victim!
Cleared the land and ready for the trailor. Father is letting me use his 34 ft. RV. Soon to be right side up in Cal.
I heard that Argentina is cool!
Grandpa always said keep enough gold on hand to bribe the boarder guards!
Having been the Argentina recently, I can attest: It is very cool and the women are very hot! And they are not nearly as high maintenance and money focused as American $$$women.
Ditch the high cost low performance American model and upgrade:
http://www.meetsouthamericanwomen.com/argentinan-women.htm?gclid=CJje_5vuo4cCFTJkGAodA2Qp9A
"I heard that Argentina is cool!"
Actor Robert Duval moved down there several years ago. He's into tango.
Costa Rica and Nicaragua have deals on primo RE these days. Some say the beaches on the Nicaraguan coast are like FL in the '40s.
"Sold the house, put the money in the bank and "I" bonds and hit the road as a full time RV'er. Love this lifestyle!"
Chris said...
"Chaps;How much did you cash out on your house to be able to become a FT RV'r? Did you allready have the RV?"
Currently there are over 1 million full time RV'rs in the USA. Many of us are workcampers who campground host, babysit construction sites, babysit bankruptcy court land (like ranches), or get paid for various other types of work. There is a newspaper dedicated to workcampers. Others, like myself, have a vested retirement and don't need to work to support ourselves. This leaves my wife and I free to do volunteer work in the many communities we visit. (We follow the sun and the Son). Yes we sold our house at a profit, but haven't used any of that money for this lifestyle. We already owned an RV. I recommend buying a used RV because 1. they are cheaper and 2. most of the bugs are worked out of them. Anyway, I see the RV lifestyle as a reasonable alternative to living in a "stick house." I live in my "wheel estate" and am free to roam from Alaska to South America on a whim. I am also planning to ship an RV to Europe and tour over there for a while. RV full timers are great people and have a lot of fun and freedom. Lots of us spend winter in Mexico and regions further south. It's cheap and it's VERY relaxing :) Chaps
Somebody said:
"Nobody put a gun to their head, and made you sign on the dotted line.
On the other side of the coin...shifty mortgage companies and their CEO's should be taken straight to prison."
Maybe not a gun, but they did use a TV. The science behind marketing, nag factors from children, peer review/peer pressure, etc, pushes the buttons in our lizard brains to MAKE us buy things we don't want.
Been there, done that. Get yourself a lawyer and move on. Living in the mountains won't be so easy if you have to give up your identity during the Collapse. This ain't gonna be like the 'tech stock bust'. The oil scam (9/ll, Allpoppystan, Operation Iraqi Liberation, Iran) has funneled all of our money (and then some) out of the country already. It won't come back until we are willing to work for less than a dollar an hour, just like in the 19th century. If we don't come up with localized wealth systems (www.solari.com), then we won't have anything to buy food with except our promise to the PTB that we won't resist the new Order.
OBEY ME!
Better to be first out than last in.
Sounds like my old girlfriend!
Anybody hear of the "Grapes of Wrath", well the bubble bursting will be the "Grapes of Wrath II", but we'll be heading back to Oklahoma and Texas! Can you imagin all those Yuppies and baby boomers picking crops!
Chaps-
I'm with you when it comes to the RV. If you don't like the neighborhood or the neighbors just pick up and go some place else. Selling the house was a good move. You must be using a wireless network. With all the tech improvements you can do wonders on the road.
"Can you imagin all those Yuppies and baby boomers picking crops!"
And just to get dust bowled on!
when you owe the bank a million dollars, you have trouble sleeping at night
when you owe the bank a billion dollars, the banker has trouble sleeping at night
when you owe the bank a trillion dollars, .... everybody starts kung fu fighting
those cats were as fast as lightening
(sing it with me...)
it was a little bit frightening
oooohhhh ohhhh kung fu fighting
Oil is going down along with the other natural resources. The stock market is next, and here comes the Great Depression II. The yuppies and preppies in the soup line. "Buddy can you spare a $5 so I can buy a mocha vente at Starbucks?"
Why do you people think the US wants to create a NATIONAL identity card?
So that even when you buy groceries - you have to show your card!
Of course... when it comes up that you are in debt - well then... your money is confiscated and you don't get your groceries.
But at least the girl at the checkout will say with a smile:
"Have a nice day!"
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