Should people who make $50,000 a year be living in $500,000 houses?
August 14, 2006
HousingPanic Stupid Question of the Day
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85 comments:
I am qualified to answer this one. I do not make even that much a year, and when the realtors try to tell me that I can afford that big a loan, my stomach turns. How exactly are they defining the word "afford"?
The short and simple truth: NO WAY!!
of course not and that's why $500,000 homes will go for $250,000 soon enough
I make 53K per annum and pay $1,056 per month, mortgage/piti on a 150K house purchased in '02. It's 1488 SF, on 1.12 acres. I use heat/ac (not central - old farmhouse) conservatively and don't have an extravagant lifestyle. Between mortgage, utilities, gas for commute/mowing & incidental repairs, I'd say 150K is about right for a 50K salary.
Here in Florida, the high cost of insurance is causing a bigger hit. I make more than $50,000 a year, and I can't afford a 1 bed 1 bed condo! The mortgage isn't the problem, it's the high cost of insurance and HOA fees on top of the mortgage.
Lots of home owners here are feeling it and trying to get out. The problem is that they're asking for prices that nobody else can afford either, and homse are just sitting on the market.
It all comes down to greedy sellers or those of which are in denial. Until they wise up and realize what their home is really worth (50% less) it won't sell.
-Dragasoni-
yeah, if they can somehow swing it. Why not?
The old rule used to be 2 1/2 times your salary so really $125K is all the house they should be looking at - most people could stretch to $150 on that salary. The only way a person making $50K should buy a $500K house is if someone dies and leaves them $350K to use as a down payment.
Going to be a lot of unsloved murders in our future.
You guys just don't understand the new paradigm. It really is different this time around
What do you mean "it really is different this time around". I live in Phoenix and I am seeing some drastic price slashing already happening. Not to mention a home builder filing bankruptcy and defaulting on several peoples earnest money.
My question is what will happen to all the foolish people on negative AM loans?
"Should people who make $50,000 a year be living in $500,000 houses?"
It depends.
If you can afford the monthly payment, why not?
My house in Denver was just appraised for $850K.
The monthly payment (P + I + Taxes + Insurance) will be $1250 on a 15-year loan.
My annual income is slightly above $50K.
The question should have been more specific.
Should a people representing only 5% of the global population consume 25% of teh worlds energy?
I do not think we can afford that -what say you Keith?
"The old rule used to be 2 1/2 times your salary so really $125K is all the house they should be looking at"
Yeah, I knew that, but 150k was rock bottom for anything decent here (DC exurb in MD) in '02. I have dogs, and was fed-up with reading "no pets" rental ads.
I've wondered if the pet prohibitions will loosen-up when all the unsold houses go rental and landlords have to compete for renters?
"The old rule used to be 2 1/2 times your salary so really $125K is all the house they should be looking at"
Yeah, I knew that, but 150k was rock bottom for anything decent here (DC exurb in MD) in '02. I have dogs, and was fed-up with reading "no pets" rental ads.
I've wondered if the pet prohibitions will loosen-up when all the unsold houses go rental and landlords have to compete for renters?
It depends. If you can afford the monthly payment, why not?
-my response, only a total idiot would purchase an asset based on the monthly payment, and disregard the price of the asset
tell you what, I'll sell you my lexus, and it'll only cost you $100 a month
deal?
"My house in Denver was just appraised for $850K."
Reminds me of when QCOM was appraised at $1,000 a share...
"Should people who make $50,000 a year be living in $500,000 houses?"
Absolutely! You know why? Because I think it is hilarious. Greedy monkeys. Hehehehe.
Deja vu !..America hasn't seen the last of eating catfood, living out of cars and under highway underpass bridges.
Only if they have a 350K downpayments!
HousingPanic Stupid Question of the Day: "Should people who make $50,000 a year be living in $500,000 houses?"
Yes. A live-in housekeeper or someone renting a room are two people who come to mind.
NO WAY - here in SD County the Median household income is 48K link:
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/06073.html
Let's be kind and say 50K in 2006. This means at 3 times income, the average price of a home should be 150K rather than 498K. . .even allowing a "sunshine factor" let's say 200K. . .when all the phoney jobs in SD County are gone(real estate and construction), and we are back to Military and Civil Servants (and of course border patrol). . .we will return to the sleepy border town we once were. . .zzzzzzz. . .
Dragasini, What is going to happen when 50-70% of the individual condo owners in one project default and walk away. Do the remaining owners have to pick up 100% of the project insurance and HOA costs? So the already outrageous costs will now double or triple on the unsuspecting owners who stay in the project? If so, BAIL OUT NOW!
>>How exactly are they defining the word "afford"?<<
You give your whole paycheck to their morgage company buddies and eat Red Vines for lunch. That's what some people my friends know do.....
I think I could swing it if I rented out all the bedrooms and had a big downpayment.
Keith wrote: "only a total idiot would purchase an asset based on the monthly payment, and disregard the price of the asset"
I did not say anything about purchasing.
The original question was: "be living in $500,000 houses".
My point was that income and house price do not have to correlated. Income does have to correlated to the monthly payment. You know, cash in related to cash out.
The price (given that down payments can vary widely) has only a slight relation to income.
I bought my house in 1985 for $134K and dumped about $170K in rehab into it. was $50K upside down the day we finished in 1987. Had ARMs for 19 years and just refinanced into a $141K fixed 15-year mortgage.
So, I think my $50K income can easily carry the mortgage and I live in a house that is (in theory) worth $850K. FYI, vacant lots (1/8 acre) in my neighborhood are selling (I have friends who sold their scraper 2 weeks ago for $575K) for $600K.
,dave
P.S. My house is NOT an investment. It is were I live and plan to live for 15+ more years.
It is short sighted to think that $50,000 can support a $500,000 house.
It is not just the mortgage.
A half million dollar house comes with baggage like higher utility costs, higher insurance, higher taxes and higher maintenance.
Many people native to CA, for instance, had to move from homes they'd been affordably comfortable
in for decades due to rising costs that go hand in hand with homeownership.
The mortgage pmt is just the tip of the iceburg.
No way someone making 50K can afford a 1/2 mil house in the real world.
Very correct. The mortagage on my new house was $350 a month in 1979 and now the taxes and insurance alone are $350 a month.
Why the hell not? As a nation we spend $1.08 for every dollar be produce, so we are obviously geniuses capable of almost any financial machination.
Like the RE commercial, "Suzanne says we can do this".
it's easy, in addition to the 50k income you've got 50k worth of credit so your income is really 100k. only problem is two mortgages, the house and the credit card. but thats what helocs are for right?
even a salary of 100k a year with a 10 - 20% DOWN is not enough.IMO. I mean if you still need to feed, educate and raise children. oh and clothes and house maintenance and lets not forget about 10K + for taxes a year.
Should a people representing only 5% of the global population consume 25% of teh worlds energy?
Sure, but only if it were produced from uranium.
Should a people representing only 5% of the global population consume 25% of teh worlds energy?
yes, if they are willing to pay the true cost of it and it's not subsidised by slave labor. theres a good reason why petrol in europe cost alot more than in america and surprise - people still drive a lot of cars over there, they just happen to get good gas mileage and are smaller. wow, what a concept - using resources wisely, why didn't we think of that? excuse me, I need to go hump my hummer now.
I know that I can't.
But it's a free country. You can f-up financially as many times as you want. Just don't take me and other taxpayers with you when you do.
thats exactly what happens when people "choose to spend their money on what ever they want". it drives up the cost of resources. Many americans have no sense of community and willingly shit in their own back yards because they"earned"it. It'll change once the shit pile gets too large.
Just spray some chemicals on the lawn cause I'm too lazy to pull a few weeds - hell I got another bathroom to build.
oops, that was supposed to be on the house pigs blog. multiblog tasking taking it's toll.
"excuse me, I need to go hump my hummer now."
HAHAHAHHAHAHA! LMAO!!!
Yes, when they are renting it for $1000/month from the FB!!!
"Many americans have no sense of community and willingly shit in their own back yards because they"earned"it.
this is PIMP!!!!
Well said!!!!
yeah - people were saying in 1973 that we were running out of oil.
But it WILL be different this time
"everyone here barely makes 50K a year there shouldn't be any damn 500K homes"
ummmmm - how do you know what I make?
BTW well above the 50K range.
he meant everyone else.
no!
no! what? new taxes? to drugs? more? subject?
once again - the anons are playing games.
My household income is a few times more than 50k a year, I live in Phoenix/Scottsdale and wouldn't buy ANY house in this shithole...meanwhile I rent a 1 acre plus 4,000 square foot home in North Scottdale, with guest house, pool. jacuzzi and 3 car garage for $2400 per month...have more money incoming and in assets than probably the majority of my striving neighbors...I also drive a 1988 Ford, use coupons at the stores, buy gas at Costco and look for deals on Ebay for just about everything.
I get perverse pleasure in watching these Snottsdale wannabes trying to live beyond their means and acting as if they're "players"..I probably have more cash in my checking account than they have debt. LOL..
richard, you unemployed piece off s**t. How else could you respond so many times in a day? Your credit worthiness has expired. You must go back and forth from here to myspace all day long.
God, I hate Richie Rich!
If you weigh 275 lbs. and you're 50lbs overweight, is it OK to eat that piece of chocolate cake?
No. But we Americans have a justification for everything..
I deserve it.
I worked hard for it.
I had a stressful day and I need to feel better.
ummmm...ok - anon
u must be working really hard
Maybe if you bought the house a long time ago, and the current value is because of bubble inflation.
I live in Calgary, which appears to be a bubble market. My wife and I purchased our home about 10 years ago for about 150k CDN. Comperable houses are over 350k now. When we purchased the house, we had only 15k to use as a downpayment. I didn't feel comfortable going that far in debt even though the bank was willing to loan us much more. At that time our household income was around 100k. Things are different now as our home is paid for. I'm less concerned about the actual value of the house than the local economic effect of a bubble collapse. There are no regrets in having a smaller house. Even so, the larger house costs more to heat and light, there's more to paint, more to clean, and when the roof needs replacing, that's more expensive. The taxes on larger houses sucks too - we pay around $1600 per annum, but with a larger house you'd be paying a lot more than that. This is for a 1200 sq. foot bungalow. Being in debt isn't a happy situation to be in, and being excessively in debt is very problematic. Don't buy more house than you can afford.
Yup, you sure can afford a 500k house on less than $50,000.
Of course, my house and 15 acres was bought with cash during the last RE downturn. It seems that with our income of $40,000, we've got allll the money we need to live a quality life. Daughter's college is paid for. Drive old cars but that's by choice.
Today, I went mountain hiking. Maybe tomorrow I'll cut some firewood from my woods. On the other hand, the tractor needs a little bit of tinkering. And my solar PV project needs some attention.... decisions, decisions.
No Mr. Smith - if you post here you MUST be unemployed and broke -
You MUST make less than 50k a year
You MUST be gay
You MUST be a Zionist
"He and his wife both make 50K so they can afford it, that is until his wife left and now he's stuck with the total mortgage."
Ha, yet another bubble ripple. Divorced men used to complain that their ex-wives got the house - now their exes leave them stuck with it!
pay the hummer , and feed the hummer
LMFAO
Only if it's his mom's house and he lives in the basement. Okay... maybe he could if he rode the bus to work, and lived off Mac & Cheese.
Richard, Go for a walk, watch t.v. or something. do anything but no more of your stupid comments, PLEASE!! O WISE ONE PLEASE!!
In the basement as a renter helping the $120k buyer make ends meet.
Well then, with Californias median income being $67,814 as published in the Federal Register, who is buying the homes and where did they get the money?
foobeca wrote: "I just did some back of the envelope calculations. A married couple making $50k/yr has an approximate after tax income of $2900/mo."
OK.
So, buy a $500K house for cash. Zero$ mortgage.
Live in the right part of country and: taxes ($200/mo) + insurance ($130/mo) + utilities ($150/mo); and the house is very affordable.
,dave
this one has been a fun read - those debt ratios for qualifying for mortgages are a thing of the past since the toxic loans and predatory lenders appeared.
plain and simple though, i think you should stretch yourself a bit and sacrifice your lifestyle some to get your first home. after that, every move up or over or down should be done with wisdom.
btw, unless you're making over 200K, your first home should not be 500k. hell, my partner and me make well over 200k per year, and we bought or lastest home last year for only 340K.
people who are overextended are the first ones to bite it when things go bad.
oh, and richard, get over the gay thing, seriously.
"Well then, with Californias median income being $67,814 as published in the Federal Register, who is buying the homes and where did they get the money?"
DINKs with no-doc IO loans, illegals with 15 people under one roof, wealthy Asians looking for a "safe" offshore haven for some of their cash.
My wife has a high school friend who recently "upgraded" from one overpriced POS near San Jose to a larger 1200 SF (LOL!) POS in Marin County - only $890K! The sad part is she and her hubby could have taken the $400K they made selling their old house and invested it in something with a future instead of using it as a down payment on a sure loser. Their new house is right next to a busy freeway but they both think they made the buy of the century. Face it, these people are no longer rational.
Hey anon - get a grip boy.
I post on about 6 different sites -read every major newspaper daily, and watch most all markets.
this site is a mental break for me.
It appears quite obvious this site is your life line.
Hey - get a handle too ;)
richard - anon (the other one) smoke a peace pipe dudes.
Case and Schiller, in their famous paper on housing bubbles, showed that the ratio of house prices/income in CA went from about 4 to about 8 and then back to 4 by either prices falling or incomes rising or both and most of the rest of the country oscillated much less, between 2 and 4 for the most part. The ratio is Southern California is now about 11 or 12.
That ratio will likely correct to five, but because housing prices only rise, that means everybody is going to get a 900% raise by 2010. This is easily imaginable if you consider that China and India are going to simply disappear and the rest of the world will want to pay $85,000 for a Ford focus pretty soon.
I know some people who bought anywhere between 500k & 700k, are working 2 full time jobs and part time on weekends. That's 7 days a week. It's insane!
Someone I spoke with who just moved to Arizona from Cali. was saying that the way Californians afford their housing is by having it given it to them by their parents. How on earth can all these people afford 3-4 houses to give to their kids?
my parents didn't give me shit. I bought in norcal in 2001 for 295k for a 1000sqft fixer, remodeled myself for about 40k and sold in 2003 for 420k. then bought raw land with two other couples for 800k and after that hippie nightmare came to a screaching halt we sold for 1.3mil a year and a half later. it was a stressful rollercoaster ride and I am now a $1200 a month renter and watching others fuck themselves into 450-600k fixers. although the market here has definitely come to a loud screeching halt there are still a few bigger fools to shake out.
by the way, when I bought the 295k house I was making 50k a year and it was tough coming up with the mortgage. 500k house on 50k? INCONSCHEEIVABLE! it's hard to spit with letters.
"Dragasini, What is going to happen when 50-70% of the individual condo owners in one project default and walk away. Do the remaining owners have to pick up 100% of the project insurance and HOA costs? So the already outrageous costs will now double or triple on the unsuspecting owners who stay in the project? If so, BAIL OUT NOW!"
I'm not sure, I guess it depends on the associate at that particular condo complex.
On a side note, I'm seeing lots of condo conversions going back to apartments in the Tampa area. Smart move!
-Dragasoni-
yeah - people were saying in 1973 that we were running out of oil.
But it WILL be different this time
We're not running out of oil, we're running LOW on oil. We can't take it out of the ground fast enough to meet demand. Do a Google search for "Peak Oil".
-Dragasoni-
You jealous bitter renters are just trying to make people scared. Together with my brothers we earn a $50K combined selling burritos at the truckstop and to commuters at the intersection of Simms and Sepulveda. We own a $400K house we bought with an ARM in 2005. In two years that house will be worth $600K. We will be laughing at the bank when we cash out in 2008. You losers will still be renting.
Gerardo de Jesus Montoya Gaviri:
What makes you think your house will be worth 600k in 2 years? You can, if you obtain a fraudulent appraisal. Next, you have to ask yourself; WHO do you think can afford to buy it for that price (600k)?Keep in mind that a prospective buyer, 2 years from now, will not be able to secure the same ARM rate that you have back in 2005. It will be a lot higher. Therefore, the only way for that buyer to afford your asking price, if he/she has 4 more siblings, like you and your brother, and MUST SELL burritos for 4 times as many as what you have sold.
CNN Money
Home prices in deep freeze
Second quarter numbers are in for more than 150 markets. Overall growth is down; more markets show declines
I believe gerardo's post was a joke dude.
The HOA members decide the fees. So if a condo tower is 50% vacant, they can either let it become run down or increase the HOA fees. It's a double-edged sword
Well...is that the half-million dollar house of today or of ten years ago? They should be living in that house, it just shouldn't cost so much!
that's a lot of taco sales at the truck stop to make that monthly nut. might need to branch out and diversify....
Hey meeester, want_to_fuck my seeeester?
500,000 in San Diego could possibly be a dump or in a rough neighborhood! I've lived here for 34 yrs.
Why not? People who make less have qualified for more!
of course not and that's why $500,000 homes will go for $250,000 soon enough
_________________________________
I'm going to say more like $180k
I make 53K per annum and pay $1,056 per month, mortgage/piti on a 150K house purchased in '02. It's 1488 SF, on 1.12 acres. I use heat/ac (not central - old farmhouse) conservatively and don't have an extravagant lifestyle. Between mortgage, utilities, gas for commute/mowing & incidental repairs, I'd say 150K is about right for a 50K salary.
__________________________________
Do you have a family? Seems like when I made $53k I didn't have much left at the end of the month really, and I drive old cars and fix everything myself and don't have kids yet. I'd say even a 150k house is too expensive. The proper ratio should be about 2 to 1 house purchase value to income. I bought my house 10 years ago for 93k, 3br, 2 bath two car detached garage Cape. At the time I made $43k, so that was about 2 to 1 and I had maybe a couple hundred a month left over, maybe a little more if I was on a more strict budget, but still, I'm frugal and wasn't into wasting money, old cars, old clothes, not a lot of trips etc...
"Should people who make $50,000 a year be living in $500,000 houses?"
It depends.
If you can afford the monthly payment, why not?
My house in Denver was just appraised for $850K.
The monthly payment (P + I + Taxes + Insurance) will be $1250 on a 15-year loan.
My annual income is slightly above $50K.
The question should have been more specific.
Monday, August 14, 2006 3:52:14 PM
___________________________________
The question was intended "Should be who earn $50k be buying houses for $500k?"
2.5x your annual income may have been a good rule when rates were at 8-9%, but with lower rates, 3.0-3.5x are doable IMHO.
For a given income, the payment will be the same at 3x income @6% interest as it would be at 2.25x @ 9% interest.
That's not to say that you should ignore the asset price and say "wuts mah paiment gonna be?" Lower interest rates should serve to allow you to buy more house on the same income or use less of your income on the mortgage rather than to push up prices.
___________________________________
Mostly true, if you plan to stay there forever. However, as most of the bubblesitters now, you also have to factor in what the house might sell for later, and when a majority of the houses have not only been bought at low interest rates, but also with ARMs and interest only mortgages, then you need to ask yourself if even if you can afford a fixed 15 year mortgage at 4.75%, is it really wise to buy that $500k house. That's another angle to consider, and in that case, the clear answer is; rent for awhile.
Love this book title, "How to buy a home when you can't afford it!" by R. Irwin
Isn't that what got us in trouble in the first place?
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