We'll be leaving Iraq soon... after having failed miserably. Face it folks, we lost in Iraq. A select few in our military failed us, our civilian military leaders failed us and this administration has failed us.
I don't care if this isn't about the housing bubble, it's my moral responsibility to speak out.
This is about our country, and it sickens me to read the things done in the name of America. The damage will hurt our image around the world for decades. Does the buck stop anywhere? Anywhere?
Not only will most Iraqis want us to leave, but many will take up arms now against our sitting duck troops with this news. Best to get them out alive now, rather than back in body bags. This war is over for America. Bring them home. Now.
Rise up people. Show the world that this America isn't the real America. Or is it?
President Bush faced a growing crisis over the conduct of American troops in Iraq yesterday after it emerged that at least three alleged atrocities are now under investigation.
With US commanders still struggling to contain the fallout from the alleged Haditha massacre, the US military announced it was investigating charges that American soldiers rounded up and shot 11 unarmed civilians, including five children — one six months old — and four women in the town of al-Ishaqi in March.
It also emerged that murder, kidnapping and conspiracy charges are likely to be brought imminently against seven Marines and a Navy corpsman for killing an Iraqi civilian near Baghdad on April 26. They are being held in solitary confinement at Camp Pendelton Marine Corps base in California.
The Iraqi civilian they killed was allegedly dragged from his home and shot. The troops are alleged to have planted a shovel and an AK-47 rifle next to his body to make it appear as if he was an insurgent burying a roadside bomb.
50 comments:
get our boys home - I'm with you. what cause are they fighting for anyway now?
can bush or rumsfield be tried in the hague for war crimes?
seriously, I'd like an answer to that question
hey keith - I don't always agree with some of your topics and presentations. I guess that is because you say what many of us think, but don't dare speak of.
I agree we have been led straight into in a complete mess. My concerns are; what, who and how can we fix it? The only thing I can think of is for US citizens to stop paying taxes completely until we have some decent representation. Our dollar is completely wasted, destroyed and spent, 100 times over by our own, elected idiots. They have abused their power and serve their own pathetic agendas.
You have pointed out many of the problems, now let's hope someone has the answers.
The Administration's desperation to provide a legalistic justification for the war, is undoubtedly related to the fact that many statesmen and commentators have challenged it on this point—but it may also have to do with the fact that a number of commentaries and articles have appeared warning that President Bush and Defense Secretary Rumsfeld could eventually find themselves charged with war crimes before the newly inaugurated International Criminal Court (ICC).
http://tinyurl.com/mte49
The war was illegal. Any smart Pres would have had Saddam and his secular party on there side after 9/11, normalized relations. Instead the Neo-Cons decide to illegally invade another country essentially embarrasing this country to death while true wacko's like North Korea laugh it up. hahahahaahah
Instead shrub breaks just not International Law, but American law more importantly. They don't need to be tried by a International court, we have ours already fired up.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/02/iraqi.probes/index.html
Not all claims and accusations are true.
Total BS.
Sometimes it is useful to wait for the investigations.
Any smart Pres would have had Saddam and his secular party on there side after 9/11, normalized relations.
Are you insane or have you watched too much CBS News?
Saddam was publicly celebrating 9/11 and gave his full support for terrorist actions against the US. And yes, the former head of Iraq nuclear weapons program made a trip to Nigeria. Maybe it was a tourist vacation or maybe the goal was to acquire some other stuff.
The only people pissed about these whimpy "massacres" are the Press and a few dippy congressmen. Iraqis and Arabs don't care about war atrocities -- they're smart enough to know it's part of the deal. Read about the British or the French in Africa in the 19th century if you want to know what real massacres are all about.
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Investigators have determined U.S. soldiers followed proper procedure and will not face charges for the deaths of at least four Iraqis during a raid near the town of Ishaqi on March 15, Pentagon sources said Friday.
We screwed up by not wiping Fallujah off the map. We should have MOABed the place. Killed a few hundred thousand. That's the kind of thing we did in Germany (Dresden, Cologne many other cities) and Japan (Tokyo, Hiroshima, etc).
The world has changed and now we'd take too much flack for it.
You have to drum it into these people (Sunni's) heads that if they maim one of ours, we'll kill 10,000 of theres.
All they respect is force.
If we won't do that, then we should leave, rather than have our troops blown up daily by people they are trying to 'help'.
Who Cares, just one more totally screwed up mess in this country. Let's start by voting all incumbents out of office and starting fresh.
Here is what must happen to fix this mess:
1) Pull troops now.
2) Pay reperations to Iraqi people.
3) Nuremberg style war crimes trial with capital punishment option for bush and his cabinet and tony blair.
The US needs to show a level of contrition close to that of the Germans after WW-II. After this shit plays out nobody will ever claim to ever have been a republican.
Bush is so incompetent that he was easily talked into this mess.
Unfortunately, one of the things we learned is that Saddam Hussein was the guy who represented our values more so than anyone else in the ME. He was an SOB but he kept Iraq from being torn apart by religious fanatics. He also stood up for women's rights and quality secular higher education. Now we get to deal with the religious crazies while we are putting Saddam through a big show trial.
The problem now is that we are addicted to 22,000,0000 barrels of oil/day. We need that ME oil and will need it even more as peak oil kicks in. So we need a presence in that area to keep the oil resources from being tied up by China,India, Russian, and Japan.
We have made a heckuva mess but we can't leave now or ever.
We screwed up by not wiping Fallujah off the map. We should have MOABed the place. Killed a few hundred thousand. That's the kind of thing we did in Germany (Dresden, Cologne many other cities) and Japan (Tokyo, Hiroshima, etc).
Fricking idiot.
Japan and Germany were major industrial and military powers that had taken over half the world and were capable of nuclear weapons production in short order.
In Iraq, we are the invader and the occupier. They are fighting a religious and patriotic war against the occupiers- just as we would do if Iraqi forces were occupying the US. And since when was Iraq capable of hitting the US mainland with anything bigger than a squirt gun??
And what F was that about bringing freedom and democracy to the poor towelheads? Democracy by mass destruction..now that is real leadership.
anonymous said . . .
"1) Pull troops now.
2) Pay reperations to Iraqi people.
3) Nuremberg style war crimes trial with capital punishment option for bush and his cabinet and tony blair."
What rot.
Iraq will cost us $1-$3 trillion. Do all you smug neocon hawks still think it was worth it?
How about the ones under age 60? Yeah, the ones who will be paying for it all...
Iraq will cost us $1-$3 trillion. Do all you smug neocon hawks still think it was worth it?
For that kind of $$$, we could rebuild the whole US rail system in advance of peak oil.
Or put together a decent health care system.
Now it's all wasted + the ongoing cost of rehabilitating 20,000 wounded youngsters.
And you generation X and Y people are going to be paying for Iraqi war expenses for a long long time because it's all being financed with Asian loans.
"Now it's all wasted + the ongoing cost of rehabilitating 20,000 wounded youngsters."
I dont think we should pay for their rehab. Anyone who has been paying attention knew from the start that the war was illegal and immoral. US military personnel have the legal duty not to carry out orders that are in violation of the law. They should not be eligible for tax payer provided medical care. The "I was just following orders" defense does not work.
Do not knock our soldiers until you know the truth.. The MSM that you continue to knock, hates our military and will do anything to discredit them... So S T F U!! until we here the full truth.. If you were in the same situation do you think your lame @ss could even remotely survive?? I doubt it...........So you vietnam draft dodgers smoke another bowl and waste a couple of the few brain cells you have left... The only way we lose this, is through the flaming left wing liberal media, that will do anything to discredit Bush.. Let our boys win the thing and get it over with... We take down a violent dictator to let the country elect it's own leaders and we are the wrong one's??
We have only lost because we have been too nice. If we acted as Saddam did there would be no problem.
Being nice isn't the way to win.
Hmmmm. the saddam trial goes on, when does the Bush & Blair trial begin?
might makes right
I too am OUTRAGED by these civilian killings.
I am reminded of occupied Greece in 1941-42 when the Germans would kill entire villages if Greek freedom fighters killed just one Nazi.
Even more Greeks died from starvation that winter.
Never in my worst nightmares could I have ever imagined that AMERICAN troops would act like NAZI soldiers.
Irregardless of whether this war is "right" or "wrong", history will not judge these acts kindly.
We are slowly losing the goodwill of the rest of the world because of this whole Iraq mess.
KEITH, my only question is what can ordinary Americans do to counter this unjust war?
I am mindful also that peace-loving Japanese were overcome by their military complex during WWII ... how are we still at war when the vast majority of the populice is against it?
prof_investor_40
"You have to drum it into these people (Sunni's) heads that if they maim one of ours, we'll kill 10,000 of theres."
Looks like the Christian Right is posting
more of their brotherly love on HP again.
Reigion is an insult to human dignity. With or without good people would do good things and evil people would do evil things. But for good people to do evil things .... well
that requires religion.
By the time this is all over Bush and Cheney
will be holed up in some bunker trying to remember who goes first in their suicide pact. Godd rindance to the both of them. Take Rice, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Pearl with you. McCain will follow them right off the deep end.
I'm laughing at the neocons who actully believe that "killing them all" is an option, or that we even have any options left besides slinking home with our tail between our legs and begging the international community for (debt?) forgiveness.
Invading Iraq will go down in history as one of the dumbest Presidential decisions of all time. But Bush just didn't want to be another one termer like his father. He had to "get the job done" this time.
Oh, and for anyone still dumb enough to believe it had anything to do with 9/11, ample evidence has been made available that this crew was planning to invade Iraq well before that fateful day. Rummy was even pinning blame on Saddam just a week or two after the attacks, before the facts were in. They manufactured the Iraq/9-11 connections because they already had the plans, and as history has shown this bunch only knows how to stick to their original plans, no matter how events change and no matter how flawed those plans turn out to be.
I don't think we will ever leave Iraq and the US is building the giant military bases and the largest embassay there.
"BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Investigators have determined U.S. soldiers followed proper procedure "
So, you believe the military investigating its own war crimes? Guess you think congress should investigate corruption in congress too eh?
The markets speak:
Halliburton (HAL) - look at the weeklies from 2002. The woman who owns the ranch where Cehney shot the atty is on the board of directors for HAL and put Cheney there. Texas justice in the Middle East. KBR's IPO will undoubtedly be oversubscribed 5-10-fold.
Compare HAL to TOL, PUL, HOV. Who are the Straussian smirking elite, spear-carriers sent to die and bag-holding chumps?
We take down a violent dictator to let the country elect it's own leaders and we are the wrong one's??
Dude...you just don't get it. We support whoever does what our big money political thugs want. The US is not on a dictator hunt.
We support plenty of dictators... let's start with the Saudis who have one of the most nasty secret police organizations on the planet. No free society in Saudi Arabia. Remember the beheadings in the Riyahd public square...and Bush holding hands with the Saudi King?
This war is not about what's right. Or the interests of the Iraqi or the US people. Never has been. We are not in Iraq to be the fairy godmother of democracy. Get real as we don't give a flying F**K what kind of politics go on in Iraq.
This is about oil, dude. When the oil is gone, then we are gone.
And when the oil is gone and the Arabs have nothing left to eat but sand, we will send them a box of plastic spoons.
what is a NeoCon???
how did we fail in Iraq? We captured Saddam, which basically forced Lybia to cave in (huge), and record #'s voted in their own democratic elections. That is a big success. You are a disgusting anti-American person.
"how did we fail in Iraq?"
1) we launched a war against a country who did not threaten us
2) there were no weapons of mass destruction - the reason given for going to war
3) we went in with a plan to win the war but not the peace
4) we went in without an overwhelming force
5) we went in without an exit strategy
6) we sold the war as "$87 billion" or paying for itself, when indeed it will cost over $1 Trillion
7) we went in without an international coalition
8) we went in against the UN and international community
9) we tortured, we killed innocents
10) we lost
how's that for starters?
Being against the war and wanting our troops home is pro-American. Calling someone anti-American for that opinion shows how deluded and vacant you are
>> The only thing I can think of is for US citizens to stop paying taxes completely until we have some decent representation.
Well, unfortunately we've got this system in place called "withholding", where the gub'ment gets your money before you do. Try telling your boss to stop the withholding, and he/she will either laugh in your face, fire you or ask you to resign.
how's that for starters?
Have you been watching too much CBS News or Micheal Moore?
Yeah, things were great before the invasion. We had to keep 200,000 soldiers in Saudi-Arabia just to protect Saudis from Iraq. UN food for oil was the biggest corruption operation in history and Saddam was bribing the french and the russians. We certainly had to act. I'm sorry but the thought that a madman gets nuclear weapon is just something that can't be allowed. In 1991, we didn't have a clue about Saddam's nuclear weapons's program (nor Libya's program in 2003).
My blinders built "privacy fences" limiting my line of sight
interfering with my reason and defining "wrong" and "right"...
Confined upon that narrow trail, with blinders on my face-
with tall fences on both sides -- what an awful place!
ROUND UP THE STUDENTS AND PROTEGES OF THE INFAMOUS U. OF CHICAGO PROFESSOR LEO STRAUSS (RUMSFELD,CHENEY,WOFOWITZ,RICE,ETC.}AND SEND THEM TO GUANTANAMO.
STRAUSS IS THE FOUNDER OF THE POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY OF NEOCONSERVATISM..."RULE BY DECEPTION".
PAUL WOLFOWITZ,THE FORMER UNDER SCY. OF DEFENSE WAS QUOTED IN VANITY FAIR WHEN CONFRONTED ABOUT THE 'DECEPTION' OF WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AS SAYING,"OF COURSE WE LIED ABOUT WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, HOW ELSE COULD WE GET THE MAJORITY OF THE PUBLIC TO SUPPORT THE INVASION OF IRAQ?"
RULE BY DECEPTION......ELITIST CONTEMPT FOR THE COMMON MAN!!!!!
FOLLOW UP....
GO ON ANY SEARCH ENGINE AND ENTER "THE POWER OF NIGHTMARES" AN EXCELLENT BBC DOCUMENTARY DESCRIBING THE MARRIAGE OF THE PHILOSOPHY OF LEO STRAUSS AND ISLAMIC EXTREMISM.
TRANSCRIPTS AND VIDEO DOWNLOADS AVAILABLE IN MANY SITES.
Interesting how we were able to spot Soviet missiles in Cuba with primitive 1950s technology (U2 spyplane)yet our sophisticated nightvision/infrared satellites could not spot WMDs purported by the Office of Special Plans (a Cheney/Rumsfeld creation to undermine analysis from the legitimate intelligence agencies)
Unfortunately, as the British found out in India, in Ireland and the French in Vietnam and, ho ho, the U.S. in all it's attempts, it's almost impossible for an outsider to help with a civil war. Eventually both warring factions see the outsider as the enemy.
It always ends up with some atrocity committed by the peace keeper and they end up looking like the bad guy, and have to leave.
Even at home, the people screaming "we must help the people of wupwpistan!" end up turning on the helpers crying, "We must get out of wupwupistan now!!!"
So, yeah, we'll be leaving Iraq soon.
Well, unfortunately we've got this system in place called "withholding"...
I know - we are screwed and it is frustrating to think there isn't much we can do except point out the problem.
As for Mexicans being an "invasion"---when was the last time an invading horde mowed the lawn?
First thing they do in CA is to ask WICs (welfare checks). And many of them vote (god knows how many times).
They're all commenting anonymously, but it's nice to see so many of the war's cheerleaders finally saying what's really been on their minds all along. "Bomb the hell out of them!" "Kill a hundred of theirs for every one of ours!" "Arabs respect only ferocity!"
I don't understand why they were so happy when Saddam was deposed, because they obviously admire his style and his methods. Perhaps we should expect right-wingers to parrot a new line: End the unjust trial of Saddam! Restore him to his rightful place in Baghdad!
Gutless, sadistic, flag-wrapped chickenhawks, the lot of them.
-- sglover
Your comments on Iraq detract from your housing blog and your credibility -- no offense, but you sound leftwing and hysterical.
Look, I think Iraq's a mistake too -- nation building, involvement in a religious guerilla war. But to be fair, no one knew how it would turn out when we went in. I try to be honest. And as I remember, the mainstream media was cheerleading as were most Americans (and I supported the war because I gave the president the benefit of the doubt).
So now we're in a difficult situation. But still none of us really knows how things will turn out -- even if they don't look too promising. In any case, our troops deserve our support and not hysterical hand wringing always ready (gleeful?) to see the worst.
Bad things happen in war -- and our troops are in tough circumstances risking life and limb. Give them the benefit of the doubt. Let investigations take place. Don't make things tougher for them just because it fits a viewpoint.
And re: the poster who wondered if Bush and Rumsfeld could be tried in the International Court... No. The US is a sovereign nation and not under the control of the UN. Talk like that is ridiculous.
Remember....it's about oil,reserve currencies,petro-dollars, petro-euros, and lo and behold, the petro-rubel.
Yes, the former USSR is now debt free, backing the rubel with gold, has given the middle finger to the economic hit men of the IMF-WORLD BANK, and like Iran, is about to open its own oil-exchange/bourse pricing its oil in rubels.
Norway will be opening its own oil bourse and will price it in kronas.
So lets see...Sadam's crime was to price his oil in euros instead of US dollars.
Chavez of Venezuela will start pricing in euros very soon!!!
This means we will be invading Russia,Norway,Iran,and Venezuela to protect US dollar hegemony.
Sorry, not enough troops or resources the next go around.
For those of you who ask,HOW DID WE GET INTO THIS MESS IN THE FIRST PLACE?
In 1971, the US was flat broke. The Vietnam war debt and LBJ's Great Society programs had eaten through the federal budget,and get this, WE WERE NOT RUNNING ASTRONOMICAL DEFECITS/DEBTS AT ALL!!!
The French were demanding payment in gold,since they did not trust the true value of the US dollar.
Nixon and the Secretary of the Treasury John Connally(Yes,that John Conally,the former Texas Governor seated in front of JFK on tha fateful day in Dallas)then removed the dollar from the gold standard,and persuaded Saudi Arabia and OPEC to price their oil in US dollars.
So for thirty years, we have had the pleasure of having,to borrow a phrase from the movie "SYRIANA",'an ATM machine on our front lawn."
The privilege of petro-dollars and the pleasure of running massive debts is painfully coming to a close.
"Your comments on Iraq detract from your housing blog and your credibility -- no offense, but you sound leftwing and hysterical."
I'll let long time HP readers comment about that quote, especially the ones who have called me a right wing loon. Would any of you call my politics leftwing?
I think the reason bush is down to an approval in the 20's is he has lost all credibility with folks like me - the centrists.
We see that the emperor is not wearing clothes.
Keith, you are a total wimp; cant just admit that you are NOT center, pure left. You are totally wrong too.
1) Regime change in Iraq was something even your Democratic leaders were calling for going back to the late 90's (John Kerry especially).
2)You, nor anyone else KNEW there were no WMD's. We had to make a bet, and the bet was that Saddam had them. Life is all ablout making tough calls,, and at that point Bush made the right call; he had to do it. How cowardly of you to look back only with perfect hindsight. What would YOU have done?
3) We DID go in w/ overwhelming force. Do you not rmemeber Shock and Awe? We had control of Baghdad within 6 weeks. Did you eat paint chips as a kid?
4) How do you know we do not have an exit strategy? Bush and Rummie do not have to tell the press (and us) what their plan is. I trust they know what they are doing, and I for one think we will and should be there a long time. It is in our best interests to help spread the creation of Democracy as much as we can. You are too much of a left/liberal, short-sighted, selfish loser to see the big picture. Why you idiot Democrats actually thought we would be in-and-out of Iraq super fast and easy is beyond me. What tools you are to miscalculate that.
5) We did go in w/ international support and cooperation (maybe not France, Russia and Germany, but many other countries) Why do these corrupt governments deserve such high consideration by you lefties?
5) We had to take a stand w/ or w/out the UN because the UN is corrupt and useless, and Saddam was giving the world the middle finger. I go back to Libya calling uncle after we crushed Saddam. Amazing what happens when you follow through on your threats. Wow,, amagine if your boy Al Gore won in 2000? Where would we be? We would have Saddam in power, and Libya not cooperating.
Good luck you total loser. Stay in the UK (great country and supporter of us in Iraq). You should go to France, Russia or China w/ your views. Please just admit you are a classic, limosine liberal, socialist, bitter, loser. And to the rest of you lefties...GFY
great comment. Recent hypocrisy by dems make me sick. Read what Bill and Hillary Clinton, and other democratic leaders (even Howard Dean) were saying about Iraq in the late 90's and before the war. They had the same intelligence in 90's during Clinton years and in early Bush years.
Yes, it is tough and bad things happen now as anon said above but so was WWII tough and we made bad mistakes in WWII as well. In the end, world was better place with nazi-Germany and Japan defeated.
Libya already gave up its advanced nuclear weapons program because of Iraq war and now we have guaranteed that Iraq will not create them for a while.
last poster...you are right. The world will be a better place because of what we have done and are doing over there. BTW...can you hear the crickets chirping in the Dem camp?
Your website has a useful information for beginners like me.
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