June 16, 2006

Questions for HP Homeowners and HP Renters


HP Homeowners: Do you go to bed wishing you had sold, and fearful that you are losing paper wealth every night?

HP Renters: Do you go to bed with a big sh*t-eating grin on your face, knowing that homeowners are losing paper wealth every day while you rent their homes for pennies on the dollar?

72 comments:

Anonymous said...

renting, smiling and feeling lucky for making such a great decision a year ago to sell and rent

:^)

boomer hater said...

I sold my house in January and got top dollar. Now I'm sitting on a pile of cash and renting. I feel sorry for the Average Joe who is going to lose their shirt and I don't really care about the investors who are going to lose. I do care about what this has done to the future of our country. I'm pissed that we are going to have to pay for the boomers to sit in retirement homes with their drool cups while they think about the good old days of screwing everyone else for self greed.

Anonymous said...

I own my own home, but if it goes down in value, that just means that if I want to move the premium to get a better place will be lower. I have no mortgage, and sold my second home in Sep 2004. Smiling about that!

Anonymous said...

Owning and laughing my ass off at anyone who owns and doesn't have a FIXED 15 or 30 yr. mtg at 5.5% or less. On my 4800 sq. ft. house my monthly P&I is $500. Of course I did not need to tap my $250000+ of equity I have built up in it.

Also laughing at anyone selling because when you go to buy a new home, you will be buying a smaller home since you will still not be able to afford the house you think Interest rates are heading WAY higher. Look for 8+% by the end of this year.

boomer/bubblesitter/renter/whoissoscrewed said...

Had a home that was paid for, wiped out by the insurance company and Florida weather.
Bought and sold a home last year and made a little.
Now, no debt, no home, a little cash, no car payment, well, no debt, renting and feeling really boxed in.

Anonymous said...

Renting in NJ and waiting for market to come down. It seems to be a slow fall but I have cash and won't mortgage more than I am comfortable with.

Joey said...

I own a condo in Santa Monica purchased in 1999. Want to sell very soon, but rents in LA are astronomical. So, the million dollar question is should I sell and take my 500K in equity due to the condo appreciation and rent for 4K per month, or keep the condo and continue paying the 1.2K mortgage each month and hope the price of the condo does not drop much in the next few years?

What do y'all think?

Anonymous said...

My dear Keith, twenty years I was banned from my home, parted from my wife and son never to see them again. Why ? Because I suggested to use cheap mortgages for producing super-realtors, beings of unimaginable strength and size. I was classed as a madman, a charlatan, outlawed in the world of real estate which had previously honoured me as a genius. Now here in this forsaken jungle hell I have proved that I am alright. No, Keith, it is no laughing matter ... Home ? I have no home -I rent. Hunted ! Despised ! Living like an animal. The jungle is my home. Then I will show the world I can be its master. I will perfect my own race of realtors, a race of atomic supersellers which will conquer the world.

ernunnos said...

Got the house I wanted before the bubble, with a fixed mortgage. Sure I could have sold at the peak and made some $. But in case you haven't noticed the $ isn't worth what it used to be even a few short years ago. I'm paying for my housing at at pre-bubble prices, with post-bubble $, and laughing my ass off.

Anonymous said...

stuck. trying to sell the home i bought before the insane run-up. in at 230 trying to get out. the damn global warming, not enough snow and hail in NY this past winter to make NY'ers run to south fla and buy my concrete shoebox. DAMNNNNNNN. maybe next winter, but i fear, my window of opp. has closed, like the last deck light on the titanic my hopes of a large payday have been silently switched off, sinking into the warm humid mosquito filled florida nights i fight back my tears and try to forget my dreams of riches.

Anonymous said...

cool graphic!

veritas_faust said...

Ok, so I admit I feel a little guilty. I look out at my breathtaking view, through a well appointed apartment and from one room to the next.

More space then I need, the condo next door to me (exact same floor plan) is being advertised for $2800.

I laught when I think that I pay roughly half that.

Mark in San Diego said...

To Joey in Santa Monica

As they say, all real estate markets are local, and Santa Monica may not see the falloff in prices that Miami, Phoenix and San Diego are seeing. . . reason - even in the depression, the LA economy was pretty good with movies, radio (and now TV) and recording industry. A lot of production is shifting back from Canada because the 30% differential in the US/Canadian dollars is gone - down to less than 10% on many days - factor in transport costs, and there is NO savings from filming in Canada. . .also, let's get a bit "racist" for a moment - the middle class in LA lives on the West Side, and seldom strays East of Fairfax. . .except to the Kodak theater. And there is very little land on the West side that hasn't been built on. In short LA (unlike SD, Phoenix, etc.) has high salaries to back up home prices, and a precious little amount of housing for sale in decent neighborhoods.

Joey said...

Thanks Mark - I fully agree with your perspective...obviously you know the area pretty well. I only stray past Fairfax when going to work, and even then it's only 5 blocks past on Miracle Mile :)

Arioch said...

As an Owner, nope not "stressing out" over missed paper goodies etc...

I bought my house to live in, not as an investment vehicle.

My fixed rate mortgage is cheaper than renting. With 3000 sf, I pay monthly what rent would be on a 2 bdrm apartment.

I applaud everyone who did not dive into the stupidity of the last couple of years and held tough renting (even with family & friends thinking you were nuts).

Your day is coming soon and you'll get what you want at a reasonable / equitable price.

entertained realtor said...

Not worried about any paper losses on my residence. My residence is not an investment, it is a liability. Sure, its' worth more today than when I had it built and because I bought the land way before I built on it I doubt that I will ever lose money on the home if I decide to sell.

In fact I'm currently building a new home on some land I bought 4 years ago for pennies on the dollar compared to the softening market prices of today. I won't even have a mortgage payment on the new larger home because I'm financing the deal myself.

Why?? Thanks to my many renters of my properties. Thank you all very much. And when the county raises property taxes this year, the community will thank those renters for paying those taxes in my name.

Please, please -- as I've said before, please talk more people into renting as I'd love to purchase a boat in the next few years, and will be able to do so as rents increase.

Anonymous said...

I'm sitting in my 10-room, 5700 SF, custom, excutive home here at Red Canyon Estates. All of the rooms except two are empty, dusty, and smell of paint and caulk. The construction stickers are still on the upstairs windows and the glue on the redi-shades is starting to fail in the Summer heat. Gotta get to those or the HOA is going to hit me with another lien. I'm three payments late on the Surburban, but it's parked in the garage so the repo man can't tow it. Damn bill collectors are calling on my cell phone night and day.

Wife took the kids and moved out last week. Said she was sick of my BS about stretching to buy an investment property. The lawn needs mowing and that tree out front looks dead.

Maybe I'll buy a FSBO sign today.

Anonymous said...

Bill Gates stepping down at Microsoft has a bigger long term impact on my wealth than my fully paid for home that is not my largest holding.

foxwoodlief said...

Happy to be a homeowner. Owning isn't for everyone (and yes, many owners can't afford it and should be renters) but renting is great in the short-run but awful forever! Just renting while building our new home in Austin sucked! We paid more for the 1400 sq ft condo than we paid on a mortgage for 3000 sq ft. The only advantage was I could walk to work (hate long drives) and knew when our new house in Austin was finished we'd be moving up into an even nicer house for the cost of renting.

I bought more house than I want or need but it boiled down to cost. I couldn't see myself buying a 1,000 sq ft house or condo in Downtown Austin for the price of our new home in the South West hills nine miles from downtown. Also only 2 miles from the hospital where I will be working (I hate the drive).

Renting? Benefits, flexibility (depending on if you sign a short or long term lease) and depending on where you live, lower cost. Here in Austin for some strange reason renting seems a lot higher. Dumps go for .70c a sq ft and nicer places up to $1.50 a sq ft. so owning is definitly cheaper. Our home costs us about .75c a sq foot for 3400 sq ft, 1/2 acre on a hillside with incredible views and backyard privacy, granite counters, stone fireplaces, rock and stone built home on all four sides, just for starters. Even if I rented and paid $400 a month less I'd only get a 1200 sq ft 2/2 apartment and if I wanted a loft downtown a studio.

In Phoenix you can rent a new home for about .50c a sq ft so cheaper than apartments unless you want to drive an hour a day to get to work. You really can't find a descent apartment to rent in Phoenix for less than $1400 a month.

I a person were single, rented a 1/1, you could get a place for $800. I just don't see any advantages for renting long term.

Anonymous said...

smiling,smiling, smiling,
I own 3, 4 units buildings in the Miracle Mile (in Los Angeles)all bought in 2002 average price 640,000 w/ 5% down refied in 2005 took out 100k(more than 5 times of what I was short for the first year of owning) in cash fom each. owe apx 700,000k on each @ 5.5 30fixed payments w/ins taxes $5k
per month
income from SMILING RENTERS like you avg $2,100 per unit x 12 = $25,200 expenses 15k net 10k
The more of you that sell the better for me the rental market is off the hook here takes less then a week to rent out a unit I just got 2400.00 for 2 bed 1 bath w/10 applications.
in a year the same unit should bring $2700.00
SMILING SMILING SMILING
I hope to see a lot more Smart Sellers like you guys soon
NOW WHERE'S MY RENT A-HOLE

Anonymous said...

Foxwoodlief, it's the UT students/wannabe students/grads who never left who are absorbing the lower-end rentals in the central area of Austin. Out in the burbs, apartments were all built as "luxury resort-living" blah blah blah de blah complexes. With pricey "luxury" particle board apartments abounding, small wonder it's cheaper to buy than rent in most places.

Cheaper apartments are there, I used to live in one. Their main tenants aren't likely to buy a house, or be able to buy a house, anytime soon. Part of the fun of being in Austin.

In@TheRise said...

1:19:12 PM:
As an fellow home owner I want to say I thinkyou are an a-hole. BOasting about your 30yr fixed at 5.5. Please, first of all unless your house is paid for you are a 'mortgage-owner'.
Second, what makes you think all people are stupid enough to sell now and trade up at todays prices. Smart people will cash out that 400k, pay of ALL debt, rent a nicer place, invest the the leftover 300k and live like Kings waiting for the nose dive that will happen. Just like..yours truly did. Good luck on your depreciating POS. Get a clue asswipe.

In@TheRise said...

"In short LA (unlike SD, Phoenix, etc.) has high salaries to back up home prices, and a precious little amount of housing for sale in decent neighborhoods."
Dude what real estate pipe have you been tokin' off??? I know lawyers in Orange County SoCal that make over 6 figs that can afford a home right now. Of course I am talking traditional loan: 30yr fixed. There is no way salaries are in synch with home prices. NO WAY.

Anonymous said...

I am not pleased that anybody will suffer because of this enormous hosuing bubble. However greed or ignorance is what drove people to make such bad investments and I only have slighly more sympathy for the ignorant than the greedy.
I am pissed that this bubble has kept me from buying. I could certainly afford to buy a large overvalued home with an income over almost 300K/year but why lose money. So I just have to wait for the crash and not be greedy myself when the market hits bottom because there will surely be hell to pay at the bottom for some as well.

Anonymous said...

Smiling, smiling, smiling at all the sockpuppets created by flop-sweating flippers and homeowners facing financial ruin, pretending to be landlords sitting pretty.

Real landlords know that when higher property taxes hit, they'll be down on their hands and knees like good doggies eating it, eating it, eating it. Rents are constrained by actual income, not by the fuzzy limits of crack-addled mortgage products.

Good doggie.

Oh, I sold last June, at the peak.

Anonymous said...

I own a home in Pittsburgh. Losing sleep? Heck, no, just the opposite. With all the put options I own on national homebuilders, I've never made so much money!

foobeca said...

entertained realtor:

"Thanks to my many renters of my properties. Thank you all very much. And when the county raises property taxes this year, the community will thank those renters for paying those taxes in my name."

In the bubble areas of the country, rents barely cover property taxes, much less P+I. You simply CANNOT get rich off rental income right now. At best, you're breaking even and at worst you're taking out HELOCs to cover negative cashflow.

Even if you own your rental properties outright, you have to take into account opportunity costs. If a $1M property rents for $3k/month you earn $36k/yr minus taxes of about $10k/yr = $26k/yr = $2166/mo. If you were smart, you'd put the money into bonds at 5% interest and earn $4166 "rent" on your money.

In addition, you don't seem to understand how markets work. Just because landlord's costs increase (taxes) doesn't mean they're able to raise rents accordingly.

awaiting bubble rubble said...

to joey in Sta Monica:

I was in Santa Monica during the 1990 bubble implosion. It was horrendously ugly, with SFR values in my 90405 zip dropping 40% and condos dropping substantially more. Of course that was before there were so many entertainment industry jobs there. However, condos always rise faster and drop faster than SFRs during bubbles/corrections, esp in Santa Monica where demand at "entry level" is insatiable. I would sell if I were you. You can rent a 2 bedroom place in Culver City for $1600 or Sunset Park for $1850 for three years and buy a Sta Monica condo at 30-40% less than now.

To the author of:

"Of course I did not need to tap my $250000+ of equity I have built up in it...Look for 8+% by the end of this year. "

If rates hit 8% by year's end, look for a big chunk of that equity to disappear!

Anonymous said...

Sold 2 on the way up while I my business was kicking but and I could afford a $6500, 00 a month mortgage.

Now I live for free in exchange for taking care of aging in-laws. Nice place, 2 on a lot for privacy.

Paid my quarterly taxes yesterday based on a 65% decrease in income to my business.

Sure glad I don’t have a mortgage, I would be in foreclosure.

Clearly the economy is slowing as much competition is arriving and taking a bite out of my income.

exurbanidiot said...

Looked to buy about a year and a half ago, couldn't make the numbers work out on a 30 year. Clearly a bubble at that time, because I am very close to average income for the area. Waiting until fall of 2007 to look again. At that time I will be into renting for over $50k. Guess what, prices are up over $100k from when I was looking. I need $150k price drop on $500k homes for this to work. OR how about some inflation(wage inflation). I am saving money that would go to the mortgage at 4.5% CDs. What about Gold to spice up my savings?

Anonymous said...

Funny to see these TRAPPED homeowners or Realtors posting on this blog. I am savings $2,000 a month and making off like a bandit. No one cares what you bought the house for years ago. The only thing that matters is what it would cost to buy it now.

Renters like me are telling you we DON'T want your house. You can keep it and hug it at night. I am saving $24,000 per year instead of buying that inflated home. And ONLY when rents match (P&I, Taxes, Insurance,Maintenance, Associations fees) will we consider buying a home. But darn, if Homeowners try to raise rents, the CPI will shoot to the moon.

So I guess Bernanke was right, He can contain inflation caused by rents and wage pressures by CRASHING HOUSING. See you there. HAHAHA!!!

Anonymous said...

As an fellow home owner I want to say I thinkyou are an a-hole. BOasting about your 30yr fixed at 5.5. Please, first of all unless your house is paid for you are a 'mortgage-owner'.
And a-holes like you are paying for my mortgage(gracias)
Did you actually sell As$-licker, w/ a 5.5 % mortgage whats wrong w/ you are you crazy.
Now if you want to buy your mortgage will be @ 7% or more .
If you had 300k in LA miracle mile you could buy half my d i c k
or maybe a little less
NOW WHERE's my Rent B I T C H
ha ha ha
NOW WHERE's my Rent B I T C H
ha

Anonymous said...

"Real landlords know that when higher property taxes hit, they'll be down on their hands and knees like good doggies eating it, eating it, eating it. Rents are constrained by actual income, not by the fuzzy limits of crack-addled mortgage products.

Good doggie."

A Real landlord knows you are paying RENT and your rent increase will more than cover my tax increases RIGHT Smart Guy? prop 13 covers my ass not yours ha ha

RENT RENT RENT
now WHERES MY RENT B I T C H

and by the way YOU JUST LOST YOUR DEPOSIT, and YOU HUNG TO MANY PICTURES SO IT WILL COST YOU AN ADDITIONAL $500 for that, and by the way GET RID OF YOUR DOG OR I WILL EAT IT.
IF YOU PARK YOUR CAR THERE AGAIN I WILL IMPOUND IT

OH your rent goes UP next month
HAVE FUN RENTING B I T C HHHHHa

Anonymous said...

happily renting a home worth $700,000 for $1,600 a month and loving it. Water bills just went up to $150 a month.....but not my problem because the contract says the Owner pays the water bill.

I'll be saving my money so I can buy this place with cash in 3 years when it lists for $400K!!

Joey said...

To Awaiting the Rubble:

Agreed - I also think selling now is a good idea, follows the buy low sell high concept. Since my next job may take me out the valley, we may just rent a single family in Sherman Oaks month to month for a while until the dust settles.

Joey

Anonymous said...

Where i live, in S. Georgia, my house was 117K in 1998. Now it'd be about 155-160K.

Before you laugh, that's a 1550 sq foot house, brick on 1 acre -heavily wooded, 2 car garage. Minimum lot size was 1 acre, now 2 in the county where I live.

Minimal traffic, nice place to live.

So I wouldn't have saved anything by renting..the bubble hasn't hit here really.

Anonymous said...

A Real landlord knows you are paying RENT and your rent increase will more than cover my tax increases RIGHT Smart Guy?

Panic attacks getting to you? Night sweats ruining your bed? Your rents are flat or declining, your costs are going up, and your mortgage daddy slipping you the sausage every month.

And you're eating it, eating it, eating it.

My LL wanted a $50/mo increase. Not bad. But I selected to decline. Instead, he's doing improvements--he put in some nice dimmer lights.

Good doggie.

today interest rates said...

I was searching blogs,and I found yours.Please,
accept my congratulations for your excellent work!
If you have a moment, please visit my today interest rates site.
Have a good day!

isibingo said...

renting, smiling and feeling lucky for making such a great decision a year ago to sell and rent

Debt Consolidation Refinance said...

Good blog, but I have bigger problems. I had skeletons in my financial closet. I dealt with mine at http://www.customortgage.net. I couldn't get a mortgage and the hole kept getting deeper. Thanks to Mortgage and Divorce I don't have either worry anymore. My equity was a lifesaver thanks to http://www.customortgage.net.

Debt Consolidation Refinance said...

Great Blog! I love to see informative sites and active discussion. I have bookmarked this site so I can check in from time to time. If you have a chance check out this site http:\\www.customortgage.net which has alot of valuable info on Real estate loans Thanks again for the Blog

the Art of Living said...

Great blog! I was surfing the web to find tips on the Art of Living. If you are interested have a quick look at http://www.wellnessmaster.com so we can exchange ideas.

automobile accident insurance claim faq said...

I am here because of search results for blogs with a related topic to mine.
Please,accept my congratulations for your excellent work!
I have a automobile accident insurance claim faq site.
Come and check it out if you get time :-)
Best regards!

automobile insurance institute said...

Hi there Blogger, a real useful blog.Keep with the good work.
If you have a moment, please visit my automobile insurance institute site.
I send you warm regards and wishes of continued success.

aviation international jobs search said...

Your blog I found to be very interesting!
I just came across your blog and wanted to
drop you a note telling you how impressed I was with
the information you have posted here.
I have a aviation international jobs search
site.
Come and check it out if you get time :-)
Best regards!

automobile insurance ratings of cars said...

Hey Fellow, you have a top-notch blog here!
If you have a moment, please have a look at my automobile insurance ratings of cars site.
Good luck!

average car insurance rate said...

Hi there Blogger, a real useful blog.Keep with the good work.
If you have a moment, please visit my average car insurance rate site.
I send you warm regards and wishes of continued success.

backpacker travel insurance said...

Hi Friend! You have a great blog over here!
Please accept my compliments and wishes for your happiness and success!
If you have a moment, please take a look at my backpacker travel insurance site.
Have a great day!

average mortgage rates said...

Hey Fellow, you have a top-notch blog here!
If you have a moment, please have a look at my average mortgage rates site.
Good luck!

bad bankruptcy credit loan personal said...

I am here because of search results for blogs with a related topic to mine.
Please,accept my congratulations for your excellent work!
I have a bad bankruptcy credit loan personal site.
Come and check it out if you get time :-)
Best regards!

best cheapest homeowners insurance said...

Hello Friend! I just came across your blog and wanted to
drop you a note telling you how impressed I was with
the information you have posted here.
Keep up the great work, you are providing a great resource on the Internet here!
If you have a moment, please make a visit to my best cheapest homeowners insurance site.
Good luck in your endeavors!

best insurance quotes said...

Hello Friend! I just came across your blog and wanted to
drop you a note telling you how impressed I was with
the information you have posted here.
Keep up the great work, you are providing a great resource on the Internet here!
If you have a moment, please make a visit to my best insurance quotes site.
Good luck in your endeavors!

boots travel insurance said...

Hi Friend! You have a great blog over here!
Please accept my compliments and wishes for your happiness and success!
If you have a moment, please take a look at my boots travel insurance site.
Have a great day!

bad credit history mortgage said...

This is an excellent blog. Keep it going.You are providing
a great resource on the Internet here!
If you have a moment, please take a look at my bad credit history mortgage site.
Have a great week!

buy travel insurance said...

Hello Friend! I just came across your blog and wanted to
drop you a note telling you how impressed I was with
the information you have posted here.
Keep up the great work, you are providing a great resource on the Internet here!
If you have a moment, please make a visit to my buy travel insurance site.
Good luck in your endeavors!

buy renters insurance said...

Hello Friend! I just came across your blog and wanted to
drop you a note telling you how impressed I was with
the information you have posted here.
Keep up the great work, you are providing a great resource on the Internet here!
If you have a moment, please make a visit to my buy renters insurance site.
Good luck in your endeavors!

bad credit loan mortgage refinance said...

Hey, you have a great blog here! I'm definitely going to bookmark you!
I have a bad credit loan mortgage refinance site.
Come and check it out if you get time :-)
Greetings.

bad credit loan mortgage pennsylvania said...

I am here because of search results for blogs with a related topic to mine.
Please,accept my congratulations for your excellent work!
I have a bad credit loan mortgage pennsylvania site.
Come and check it out if you get time :-)
Best regards!

bad credit loan mortgage pennsylvania said...

I am here because of search results for blogs with a related topic to mine.
Please,accept my congratulations for your excellent work!
I have a bad credit loan mortgage pennsylvania site.
Come and check it out if you get time :-)
Best regards!

Joe Berenguer said...

Hi Friend! You have a great blog over here!
Please accept my compliments and wishes for your happiness and success!
If you have a moment, please take a look at my canada car free insurance quote site.
Have a great day!

James Baker said...

Hi Fellow! I was just searching blogs,and I found yours! I like it!
If you have a moment, please visit my canadian automobile insurance quotes site.
Good luck!

James Baker said...

Hey, you have a great blog here! I'm definitely going to bookmark you!
I have a canadian automobile insurance rates site.
Come and check it out if you get time :-)
Greetings.

Paul Adams said...

Your blog I found to be very interesting!
I just came across your blog and wanted to
drop you a note telling you how impressed I was with
the information you have posted here.
I have a bad credit mortgage rate
site.
Come and check it out if you get time :-)
Best regards!

Joe Berenguer said...

This is an excellent blog. Keep it going.You are providing
a great resource on the Internet here!
If you have a moment, please take a look at my bad credit mortgage remortgage uk site.
Have a great week!

Joe Berenguer said...

This is an excellent blog. Keep it going.You are providing
a great resource on the Internet here!
If you have a moment, please take a look at my bad credit mortgage remortgage uk site.
Have a great week!

Joe Berenguer said...

This is an excellent blog. Keep it going.You are providing
a great resource on the Internet here!
If you have a moment, please take a look at my bad credit mortgage remortgage uk site.
Have a great week!

Joe Berenguer said...

Hi Fellow! I was just searching blogs,and I found yours! I like it!
If you have a moment, please visit my canadian car insurance company site.
Good luck!

Debt Consolidation Refinance said...

Your Blog. It's nice . If you have a mortgage issue, I'm sure you'd be interested in Southern California home loans STOP renting now, Find out how!

James Baker said...

Hey Fellow, you have a top-notch blog here!
If you have a moment, please have a look at my canadian insurance quotes site.
Good luck!

Anonymous said...

Searching for Travel Guide?
We have collected together in one convenient place a wide assortment of Travel Guide information.http://www.holiday-travel-guide.com/

Bill Harrison said...

Hi there Blogger, a real useful blog.Keep with the good work.
If you have a moment, please visit my bureau credit site.
I send you warm regards and wishes of continued success.

superclosetnerd said...

Not sure if I want to user blogger or not, i like the way your site looks and it is free. I want a blog for my site but just can't decide. My site if ya wanna look... old fireplaces