May 28, 2006

Homebuilders say immigrants' work is vital


Not only should we send the illegals home, not only should we fine these businesses that turn a blind eye to illegal activity for the sake of profits, but people who knowingly hired illegals should be arrested for aiding and abetting. Period.

And I laugh at anyone who says illegal immigration is not tied to the housing bubble. Each is a cause of the other.

Whatever your opinion regarding immigrants who have entered the United States illegally, realize that if you are in the market for a new house, it's likely to take longer to build -- and cost more to buy -- if they are forced to leave the country.

The National Association of Home Builders estimates that 20 percent of the construction workforce -- about 2.4 million people -- is foreign-born. While it's impossible to know how many are undocumented, some estimates put the number at 50 percent or more.

Whatever the true count, builders across the country say illegal immigrants play an important role in a construction labor market that is already stretched thin.

An unknown number

Craig Havenner of the Christopher Cos., a builder in Virginia, has no idea how many of the carpenters, brick masons, roofers and other craftsmen who work for the subcontractors he hires are here illegally. Nor does Michael Fink of the Leewood Real Estate Group in Trenton, N.J.

But both builders say they'd be hard-pressed to deliver their products on time or at the same price if "illegals" were ordered to leave the country, as some federal legislators have demanded.
"We have the right to control our borders; every other country does and so do we," says Havenner, who builds high-end, single-family houses. "But we also need to realize we are terribly dependent on foreign-born workers. We can't be blind to that."

39 comments:

Anonymous said...

Once they are here they will have kids. Because of the active birth rate of Mexicans here in the US I read that in 20 years there will be more Mexicans in the US than any other race.

foobeca said...

What a load of excrement. Before illegals started building houses en masse and before the housing bubble, housing was cheaper and of better quality.

When there's 2 million homes being built per year and 1 million new households per year being formed, what do you think is going to happen? The other million is being bought up by the boomers as vacation/2nd/spec houses.

There are millions of houses in this country that are sitting empty. The vast overbuilding is what led to the increases in construction costs and the need for illegal alien labor.

Anonymous said...

Guess who is going to start rioting in the streets first?

Yea, it will be all those illegals out of work.

They are getting paid to build houses now... But what happens when they get the pink slip and no unemployement comp cause they're illegal.

Urban Crime Skyrockets. Get out of the big bubble cities while you can or be stuck living in hell.

Anonymous said...

What a load of excrement. Before illegals started building houses en masse and before the housing bubble, housing was cheaper and of better quality.

foobeca, when did the homebuilders start hiring illegals? (I would like to know so that when I go to buy in a couple years I make sure to avoid a crappily build $hitbox.)

I'm guessing it was sometime in the 1980's because I remember in 1977 when my parents bought a new home the carpenters were skilled craftsman that happened to be american citizens.

Anonymous said...

20% of the workforce being foreign born is total BS. I have not seen a *single* non-mexican on a framing or roofing crew in the last 5 years, other than the sub-contractor owner/supervisor. I as for being documented, I would be surprised the number is not 90% illegal. I deal with Visa issues at my work for educated applicants for work visa's, and they wait for years. I don't think there is a bunch of rubber stamping for framers.

Also, years ago, these used to be "skilled" trades. I am against unions on principle, but they did keep the standards and training up for who qualifies. Now, the crews will pickup anyone who can swing a hammer....

Seattle had a bunch of illegals fired by their painting contractor boss for not showing up to work on protest day, and the King County executive *forced* the owner to give them their jobs back. And the painters union supported them even though they are not members or legal. So you have our own "elected" (dead people vote in King County, and always democrat) officials and unions officially supporting the illegals.

We are in big, big, trouble.

Anonymous said...

powder keg.

Anonymous said...

The illegals had it made until they started DEMANDING rights and waving that fucking Mexican flag. Just like Pearl Harbor, you don't want to awaken a sleeping giant. Keep demanding rights criminals. Watch what happens.

Anonymous said...

Illegals started working for builders on a large scale in the mid-'80s. Builders like them because in general they work cheap, work hard, don't complain, and don't show up stoned.

They do what they're told, so the poorly-built house is probably not their fault because the builder ultimately decides what level of chraftsmanship is used.

In my own experience with painters, I hired a Mexican crew that did a top-notch job, on time, with no hassles whatever. We had an American crew that showed up late and then got stoned at lunch. One of the Bubbas fell off a two-story ladder and broke his back while his dumbasses buddies giggled. Gee given the choice, I wonder which crew I'd hire again?.

foobeca said...

when did the homebuilders start hiring illegals? (I would like to know so that when I go to buy in a couple years I make sure to avoid a crappily build $hitbox.)

I'm guessing it was sometime in the 1980's because I remember in 1977 when my parents bought a new home the carpenters were skilled craftsman that happened to be american citizens.


It's been a gradual process that started mostly in the 80s. Even 10 years ago, there wasn't a lot of illegals doing the work. But today, just about everyone I see at construction sites are illegals.

Noodles said...

To follow the anonymous before me, I must agree with his point. I also don't like illegals with all these kids but to cap them on their work ethic is a lie.

I worked construction back in the early 90's and truth be told most whites I worked with except one fugitive con from Ark. were horrible workers. Lazy, drunk, druggies, thieves.

The Mexicans (not just because I'm one) on time, no complaints, quick and did a better quality job. I'm sure we all have our own stories but at least if making an arguement make an honest one from your own experience not just a made up one. Oh and by the way your biggest lazy hispanic bunch are Puerto Ricans not Mexicans and that sadly enough is also from my experience with them and Cubans.

Anonymous said...

Agree with anon above: the illegals really didn't bother me UNTIL they started demanding shit. I say don't give them ANY benefits: welfare, medical, etc...

Years ago, my dad (a taxpaying citizens for YEARS) went through some bad times and tried to apply for welfare, just til he could get on his feet. You know what this lovely government of ours said? "Sell your house, you don't qualify 'cause you own a home."
What a bunch of bullshit with these illegals demanding shit. If you ask me, they're not entitled to a DAMN THING!!

Anonymous said...

These illegals take jobs from a skilled American craftsman, drive wages down and do shit work!!!! I know, I am in the construction industry and see what kind of poor work they do (not to mention they piss everywhere in the house). Not only is the work poor but not to code! I blame the contractor more than the illegals. They can only get the market value for a house weather an illegal builds it or not but they make more profit by not hiring Americans who not only expect to be paid fairly but need to be paid more so he can pay taxes, and for a house where he dosn't have to live with three other families. Maybe the Realtors wouldn,t mind if illegals started getting into their bussiness and sold a house on 1% commision, thats $3,000.00 for a $3,000,000.00 house, alot of money for an illegal!! I don't think we will here how good that would be for anyone though!!

Anonymous said...

At my union annual party where they try to hype you up to vote Democrat. We were lectured how we need to help our fellow immigrant workers. No mention on thier illegality. Not only did I walk out during this rediculas rant but so did many real immigrants who came here legally(they are mad over this situation). Funny thing was that the hispanics all cheered and stayed while real citizens and naturalized citizens who were not hispanic either walked out of the room or paid no attention!!!

uknowwhoiyam said...

And I laugh at anyone who says illegal immigration is not tied to the housing bubble. Each is a cause of the other.

If you're right about the causal connection between home construction and illegal immigration, then the good news is that as the construction business abates in the coming months and years, so will illegal immigration.

keith said...

I love the "take the jobs americans don't want to do"

uh, last time I checked, americans had no problems building houses, building cars, building whatever.

but now that wages got driven down to pennies on the dollar due to illegals, sure, americans don't want to work for those wages, nor can they and still put a roof over their head.

nothing wrong with the job. everything wrong with the new pay scale.

Anonymous said...

I love the "take the jobs americans don't want to do"

uh, last time I checked, americans had no problems building houses, building cars, building whatever.


Sure there's the "building" part, but what about the "service" part? Wanna pick fruits and vegetables in the hot sun all day? How about scrubbing floors and toilets? Are you game for that?

BGManofID said...

Sure there's the "building" part, but what about the "service" part? Wanna pick fruits and vegetables in the hot sun all day? How about scrubbing floors and toilets? Are you game for that?

I expect that when the bubble goes, you won't have any trouble whatsoever finding Americans who will do it.

Also, Americans do the 3D jobs all the time in places such as Vermont or rural Minnesota.

I'll grant that white Americans don't work as well in the hot sun. After all, by natural selection we were meant to be living in cold, cloudy, rainy Europe, not the Arizona desert. (Incidentally, the southern "redneck" is the descendant of white indentured servants/slaves brought over from Britain and Ireland, but who kept rebelling and didn't work as well in the hot sun as well as the Africans.)

Which is why last year, I noticed a Mexican crew working on a house when the weather was hot, but when it got cold they were mysteriously replaced by a white crew.

uknowwhoiyam said...

I expect that when the bubble goes, you won't have any trouble whatsoever finding Americans who will do it.

Employers couldn't find them before the RE bubble, but they'll find them after the bubble?

road hog courier said...

The 80's was the decade which saw the first massive waves of illegals flooding into LA, and it has continued non-stop since. This problem only became a national issue because the illegals have probably dispersed out of LA/SCal due probably to the high cost of living and Skyrocketing RE prices in SCal. We have had these problems with illegals in LA/CA for almost three decades: Forged documents,hospital trauma centers forced to close due to almost all illegals not having health insurance, overcrowded schools, ilegal gang problems, illegals committing serious felonies such as murdering police officers and fleeing to Mexico, high cost of incarcerating illegal aliens in the state prison system, ad nauseum. Proposition 187, which would have denied benefits to illegals, passed by a 60-40 vote but was struck down by the courts(1994).
The amnesty passed in 1987 only resulted in much more massive illegal alien since. The Politicians have lost control of the situation, especially In california which is already a lost cause( witness Vicente Fox addressing the Cal legislature and getting a standing applause.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Once they are here they will have kids. Because of the active birth rate of Mexicans here in the US I read that in 20 years there will be more Mexicans in the US than any other race.

This and half the above quotes tell me that only the white trash in the audience care to comment on this topic. First of all, there will potentially be more HISPANICS in the US that whites, not Mexicans.

Second, lets face it. this country is in decline. The white trash would rather complain about immigrants picking vegetables than go out and get an education. Americans are lazy.

Anonymous said...

Adolf Hilter exploited hard time by blaming a race. Any politcal ambitions for Kieth? Hmmm...

Anonymous said...

Can someone please explain why a house built by a Mexican would be poorly constructed versusone built by a POS of white trash or a nig?

BGManofID said...

This and half the above quotes tell me that only the white trash in the audience care to comment on this topic. First of all, there will potentially be more HISPANICS in the US that whites, not Mexicans.

Yeah, like we "white trash" are supposed to sit up and cheer about that. Most "Hispanics" are Mexicans, and the remainder are mainly Salvadorans, Guatemalans, and Hondurans, who are simply Mexicans who decided not to be part of Mexico. Let's face it... little Puerto Rico can't exactly overrun us, and half of it's here already anyway.

Second, lets face it. this country is in decline. The white trash would rather complain about immigrants picking vegetables than go out and get an education. Americans are lazy.

Uh... FYI, I have two bachelor's degrees and working on a master's in chemistry. That enough education for you?

Can someone please explain why a house built by a Mexican would be poorly constructed versusone built by a POS of white trash or a nig?

Of course, only whites can be "racist" because we're the "group with all the power". Never mind that it's actually the white elites who do... and they are doing everything to oppress their own race. Rank and file whites are MORE "powerless" than the "poor" illegals, if you think about it.

Now to answer your question. Last time I checked, Mexico wasn't exactly known for its fine manufactured goods. Europe, on the other hand, is. The USA was, at least until its factories were all shipped to China.

Anonymous said...

what i still dont get is how so many wetbacks inn this country work in construction at all. either building the home i live inn now or working on expanding i-95. how can a H.S. dropout, spanish only speaking, adobe mud hut livin, guat or wetback be qualified to build something that does not exist in the country they are from. they dont have super hiways, they dont have mcmansions they dont have indoor plumbing and they use burros to get around.yet assholes like mcain will allow they ss bene's and irs tax breaks. do they give great bj's ?

the us is now a third world bananna republic, the anglo-saxon is now the minority with no clout and is being squashed by the very country we built and fought for.

Dogcrap Green said...

My experience in working in North Carolina is that the inbreeding of the white people have made them into an employment liability. We are much better off without them messing things up. They are just too stupid. Can't do anything without their employer spending more money to fix their damage done.

I'm sure our freind along I-95 will agree

asdf said...

The cheap labor argument is also the "pro slavery" argument used by the south in the civil war. E.g. we can't possibly grow all this cotton without cheap, slave labor.

Let's get real. Most Americans don't mind immigration and actually welcome hardworking, responsible people who want to come to this country. Most Americans DON'T want the gangs, drugs and crime that come hand in hand with large scale illegal immigration.

We can't deport them now, too many. So we should grant them amnesty, waive the magic wand and make them all Americans.

Moving forward, we should stop chain immigration, determine a set of criteria for wanted immigrants e.g. must have $X dollars, must have an education, must be below a maximum age etc.

Finally, these immigrants must want to become Americans. Foreign workers who want to waive their own flag, speak their own language and hold on to a separate culture are not new Americans, they are invading foreigners and must be deported. PERIOD!

Anonymous said...

Interesting comment above about mexicans not knowing how to construct a home....you're right, never looked at it that way before. explains why all these new homes are built so shitty.

as for what to do - just deny the illegals any and all free services like welfare and medical....where are they going to delivery of all those babies then? Out in the street....great, then arrest them for indecent exposure and send 'em home!!
And no more automatic citizenship for babies born here. correct me if I'm wrong but I think the UK requires at least one parent be British born to grant the child citizenship. Keith, care to verify?

Anonymous said...

Actually, the babies of illegals born here, so called anchor babies, are NOT U.S. citizens, though this myth is endlessly repeated. All the U.S. Supreme Court has said is that they are legal "persons" within the context of the Constitution, and entitled to the same rights to which other persons, including foreigners, are entitled. It has never said they are citizens.

If a German couple visiting Miami gives birth, the child is not automatically a U.S. citizen. Anchor babies are not citizens, so the issue is moot.

Illegal immigrants who use the word "citizen" for "legal person" and "racist" for "anti-illegal immigrant" could do with a better dictionary.

Incidentally, the Supreme Court has ruled that corporations are legal persons, but that unborn children of any nationality at any stage are not, so anchor babies to the Court are of no more significance than a Taco Bell franchise.

bgmanofid said...

My experience in working in North Carolina is that the inbreeding of the white people have made them into an employment liability. We are much better off without them messing things up. They are just too stupid. Can't do anything without their employer spending more money to fix their damage done.

It's funny that the Japanese car companies are driving GM et al. into bankruptcy. Especially since said Japanese car companies (Toyota, Honda, and Nissan for a fact, and possibly others as well) have been hiring "inbred white crackers" in places like Tennessee and Indiana to build their American models while GM is trying to go all out at making sure it hires enough blacks and "Hispanics".

they dont have super hiways, they dont have mcmansions they dont have indoor plumbing and they use burros to get around.yet assholes like mcain will allow they ss bene's and irs tax breaks. do they give great bj's ?

Apparently Dubya's brother Jeb thinks so.

road hog courier said...

Have been to some fairly large construction sites all over Scal(big commercial and institutional projects such as schools, commercial office buidings,master planned communities, the casino project in highland, the mall in fairfax district,the new civic center in corona, ect. The project supervisors and planners are mostly white, as are most of the really skilled construction employees/independent contractors. The lower grades of work at these sites(refuse hauling, basic carpentery, site grading and leveling, digging and laying sewer pipes, concrete pouring, ect) are done mostly by Latino workers( who may be illegal)but always under the supervision and guidance of the white general contractors. Anotherwords, the basic,relatively unskilled heavy grunt work is done by the latino immigrants. This is for large complex construction projects, not for SFH's. which i understand is increasing done by independent contract immigrant latino owner/operators here in SCal.

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