tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post7313250534427094539..comments2023-12-30T10:06:37.450+00:00Comments on HousingPANIC - The Housing Bubble Blog with an Attitude Problem, 2005 - 2008: New movie and book on credit-addicted Americans - Maxed Out by James Scurlockbloggerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06585266242070350399noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-32303160910570156582007-03-27T03:49:00.000+01:002007-03-27T03:49:00.000+01:00I wonder if I can borrow 60K on my credit cards, p...I wonder if I can borrow 60K on my credit cards, pay off my student loans and then lose my job and declare bankruptcy.<BR/><BR/>I would think 7 years of no credit would be better than 30 years of paying it off.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-51378599176517872802007-03-26T14:15:00.000+01:002007-03-26T14:15:00.000+01:00Natural Eyebrows & Paul E. Math:The Frontline PBS ...Natural Eyebrows & Paul E. Math:<BR/><BR/>The Frontline PBS expose was excellent. Thank you very much. Basically Sub-prime has gone down the same path as the CC industry due to the vacuum of accountability at all levels. The difference? CC debt is rarely in the 6 figure range, but mortgage debt normally is, hence the dollar value of bad debt will be much larger. Mortgage debt is "secured" but the question is how much of the debt is "fluff" (over-valuation of the asset, fees, commissions, interest, penalties etc) to the point the bank will lose more relative to the unsecured debt of CCs. Also bankruptcy can still wash away housing related debts but CC debt now is virtually impossible to wash away.<BR/><BR/>I also note with interest (no pun intended) that South Dakota's usury reform was not intended to have this consequence, but was an attempt to address a real economic concern and the former governor expressed regret on what happened. Dela$h!th0le on the other hand possessed specific intent to foster this very dilemma by copying S.D.'s !!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-10338814077714661432007-03-26T12:36:00.000+01:002007-03-26T12:36:00.000+01:00You can lay the blame for our soulless, materialis...You can lay the blame for our soulless, materialistic culture squarely at the feet of capitalism and its biggest cheerleaders, the conservatives.<BR/><BR/>It's no wonder people are willing to fly planes into our buildings as a warning to keep our way of life away from polluting their cultures.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-50638087884556377602007-03-26T09:25:00.000+01:002007-03-26T09:25:00.000+01:00I don't think that credit cards are bad, if you kn...I don't think that credit cards are bad, if you know how to use them. I pay all my living expensive with credit cards, which offers me an extra 25 days to earn interest at the bank before paying the bill in full. Plus I get lots of rewards points that turn into free store gift cards.<BR/><BR/>The important thing here is knowing how to beat the system, folks. They are all out there to get us. Don't snooze.<BR/><BR/>The consumerism problem is not just an American thing anymore. The entire planet is living beyond their means. I agree with another poster who said that it's due to Internet, movies, and cable TV. For instance, young girls in South America are crazy for that American program, "The OC", which is about a bunch of spoiled rich kids in Orange County. Celebrities set a bad influence too, when they wear jeans that cost $500, pay $10k / night for a hotel room, and wear handbags that cost $8k.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-54197874254671988442007-03-26T04:45:00.000+01:002007-03-26T04:45:00.000+01:00I agree with anon 3;26pm. How do people make ends...I agree with anon 3;26pm. How do people make ends meet without credit cards? EVERYTHING from groceries to clothing has gone up about 40% in the last 5yrs alone (probably due to people cashing out equity and creating greater consumer demand). After you account for necessities like utilites, gas, insurance - health, auto, home, life (what a racket this insurance biz is!) there is often little to nothing left to spend. And let's not forget about birthday gifts, wedding/shower presents and all the BS holidays throughout the year that require extra spending. Sure there are those who abuse it for lots of extra's they don't really need since its so damn easy to get credit these days. But i can see how people with low wages and a family to support can get lured into the credit card trap. <BR/>Yeah, wasn't it nice when mom could stay home and raise her own kids? So sad that that's such a rarity now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-688485255576512642007-03-26T02:05:00.000+01:002007-03-26T02:05:00.000+01:00So...exactly why should we not all join in the fun...So...exactly why should we not all join in the fun and max out as many credit cards as possible, if it's all going to crash anyway? <BR/><BR/>Cash darn well better had be king, after a lifetime of doing the right thing while, apparently <I>hardly anyone else</I> does. Humph!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-65910124567600070352007-03-26T01:56:00.000+01:002007-03-26T01:56:00.000+01:00Lafeyette? Victorville? Commonly-named-town?Could ...Lafeyette? Victorville? Commonly-named-town?<BR/><BR/>Could you spare the energy to type the extra two letters indicating your state?<BR/><BR/>"Centerville - a real nice place to raise your kids up..." - Frank ZappaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-5895618851298898122007-03-25T20:45:00.000+01:002007-03-25T20:45:00.000+01:00In the Castle by Kafka, he says "I don't actually ...In the Castle by Kafka, he says "I don't actually want to get into the true state of the affairs, the illusion may actually respond to reality."<BR/>Watched the movie Wall Street this week with Charlie Sheen. In it Gordon Geeko looks at a painting on the wall and tells Bud Fox that he spent 1.2 million dollars for that painting and now if he were to sell it today he could only get 800.00.<BR/> He says something like this..."When the illusion becomes real, the more and more real it becomes the more they want the illusion to be."<BR/> As we see this housing bubble go through all the different levels, the shock of the people is going to be maddening for some. We will not be in the same place that we were before all the mania.<BR/> Hold On.<BR/>BeckyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-49177956494101969082007-03-25T17:56:00.000+01:002007-03-25T17:56:00.000+01:00This story has been told before. Check this out: ...This story has been told before. Check this out: <BR/><BR/>http://tinyurl.com/5owbe<BR/><BR/><BR/>Paul E. Math is correct. Credit card lenders engage in usury. So do storefront "payday loan" operators and other consumer lenders. The problem is that there are hardly any usury laws any more, and the credit card companies have HQ'd themselves in states that have no interest rate ceiling, thus avoiding the usury ceilings in those few states that still have anything like a meaningful usury statue. This is all explained in the PBS documentary for which I have provided a link above. <BR/><BR/>We need a national usury law. Lenders lend to high risk borrowers because they think they can quantify the risk of default and price the loan accordingly. An interest rate ceiling would deter the riskiest practices. Of course this is only a part of the problem. Seven year car loans and exotic mortgages would still be a problem, if not fixed. <BR/><BR/>Domestic car companies are in the finance business because it's the only way they can continue to sell cars and keep their factories operating. <BR/><BR/>One more item re student loans. They are a VERY different category of debt because they are generally not dischargeable in bankruptcy. College tuition has been rising for the same reasson that home prices rose: free money. Colleges can raise tuition with impunity because a third party is financing the cost with no review of the likelihoood of repayment. When the student graduates and can't find a job that pays enough to service the student loan debt, the lender just calls in the gov't guaranty and the gov't or its proxy goes after the debtor. Many times a homedebtor can just walk away because of state mortgage anti-deficiency laws. At worst the mortgage debt is dischargeable in BK. Student loan debtors will have the worst of it, and that story has barely begun.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-25288947028674663392007-03-25T17:19:00.000+01:002007-03-25T17:19:00.000+01:00MadMonkey....very few enjoy being raped by corpora...MadMonkey....very few enjoy being raped by corporations...glad you "like it".....your species (the rape cheerleader) is what has enabled the rape to continue...thank you SO much.<BR/><BR/>paul.e.math....good feedback/good points. thanx.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-52134919918938006612007-03-25T17:02:00.000+01:002007-03-25T17:02:00.000+01:00Anonymous March 24, 2007 2:15 PM said:"He saves hi...Anonymous March 24, 2007 2:15 PM said:<BR/>"He saves his most venomous opinions for the banks that issue credit cards. "<BR/>-------------<BR/>Then we must also be equally critical of the rotten free riding parastic state of Delawhere!! That's the state with the loose corporate banking and credit card laws that allows them to exploit the ignorant sheeple. All the other states have very paternalistic laws that keep predatory bank lending in check, so Dela$h!th0le decides to serve up on a silver platter the legal protection/cover they need to exploit and dupe the masses of sheeple our society produces. Cut the cancer of Dela$h!th0le from our nation and we remove exploitation at its source. FYI, the deladumb delascum are all crying because all the call centers and credit card administration positions are being shipped to India so they are losing the big easy gravy train they've been enjoying since they passed all these bogus exploitive laws. E.g. the payday/title/tax return loan are all inovations of dela$h!th0le laws, just look where all the banks are incorporated and where you send your credit card payments!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-16703436209846266092007-03-25T12:54:00.000+01:002007-03-25T12:54:00.000+01:00The movie touches briefly on the run-up in home pr...The movie touches briefly on the run-up in home prices. It doesn't identify the run-up as a bubble that is destined to burst. The increase in home prices is just another aspect of the widening gulf between rich and poor. <BR/><BR/>One woman states proudly that her house was purchased for something like $300k and sold for something like $900k. She wonders aloud how new buyers can afford to enter the market and identifies the adverse affect this would have on some people. Then she says "but some people have made out really well so...". So that makes it alright?<BR/><BR/>It's the inherent unfairness of the housing bubble that bothers me the most. If the bubble continues undeflated then it is yet another great contributor to the widening gulf between the haves and have-nots. Not only is this grossly unjust but it is also a very bad thing for this country and for our society if we perpetuate these disparities.Paul E. Mathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03719759088047080921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-77154956230703016752007-03-25T06:13:00.000+01:002007-03-25T06:13:00.000+01:00Great book. Sez in note book soon avail, but avail...Great book. Sez in note book soon avail, but avail here in Oz. Not the best written book, but so what. The content and stories are very compelling. The real issue it makes clear is that while the creidt card companies and banks are doing all they can to shaft people at every turn, people also bear responsibility. Its not a problem caused solely by the banks, the government or the people--its a cultural/social problem. Sure the credit card people should not try to scam you with interests or moving around the due date, but hey, do you really need that $3.00 latte or a SUV or your kid must have all the latest Harry Potter and Game cube gee gaws? This book along with the tightening economic times should be a wake up call not just for more oversight of finance, but for some measure of self control on the part of "consumers". Do notice in America people are called consumers--I suggest to you that this term is not accidental.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-1499974921168253652007-03-25T05:49:00.000+01:002007-03-25T05:49:00.000+01:00Know your audience Keith. These clowns are too ma...Know your audience Keith. These clowns are too maxed out to squeeze any more credit to buy this book.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-8972147645171020822007-03-25T02:12:00.000+01:002007-03-25T02:12:00.000+01:00Just returned from seeing the movie dowon at the K...Just returned from seeing the movie dowon at the Kendall Square. It was a little too anecdotal, not enough numbers and data. But it still made me want to cut up all my credit cards and take a shower.<BR/><BR/>The madness has to stop. I think it's actually a symptom of a broken political system. Money buys influence and it's banks, credit card companies and special interests that have the money.<BR/><BR/>Yeah, people are stupid for running up credit card debt and they should have to pay that debt back. But interest rates of 40% are usury. It's wrong. There should be some reasonable total limit (including penalties, fees and interest) on the amount that a person can be charged above the principle they borrowed.Paul E. Mathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03719759088047080921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-78937404059179329552007-03-25T00:44:00.000+00:002007-03-25T00:44:00.000+00:00“Most people can't do the math.”I disagree. Reas...“Most people can't do the math.”<BR/><BR/>I disagree. Reason for this mess is that Americans have become overindulged people who can not deprive themselves of anything.<BR/><BR/>I have a bumper sticker on my car that says “LIFE IS NOT A FASHION SHOW, TRY TO GROW UP”.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-37889307646384435122007-03-24T23:41:00.000+00:002007-03-24T23:41:00.000+00:00There's just a lot of trash and scum in this count...There's just a lot of trash and scum in this country....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-31789717687547821702007-03-24T23:17:00.000+00:002007-03-24T23:17:00.000+00:00I'm not sure exactly why people sell out their liv...I'm not sure exactly why people sell out their lives to credit, but America has become a status-obsessed society, and even those who are just a little bit insecure will fall victim to it. They feel the need to have the biggest house, hottest car, most expensive watch, etc etc of anyone on their block. I used to live in Scottsdale Arizona where people seem to have fake debt-financed status as their sole reason for living. Very sad that people do this to themselves.Frank Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07625929422222490759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-72327380039851295522007-03-24T21:07:00.000+00:002007-03-24T21:07:00.000+00:00Oh great another liberal documentary where "the go...Oh great another liberal documentary where "the good people" (fireman, teachers, single mothers, former drug addicts) are taken advantage of by evil CORPORATIONS. The bankrupt subjects of the film will bear no responsibility for the situation they're in. Critics will rave about it - and it will be nominated for an Oscar along with "An Inconvenient Truth 2: Electic Boogaloo". <BR/><BR/>Yeah and this is the same douche who made "SuperSize Me" that giant piece of shit on film where he acted like he was dying from eating McDonalds - a lot of phony playing to the camera bullshit. <BR/><BR/>Peace outAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-26975041552726008552007-03-24T19:18:00.000+00:002007-03-24T19:18:00.000+00:00Therock Obomba for presidentTherock Obomba for presidentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-53876744483041621412007-03-24T18:13:00.000+00:002007-03-24T18:13:00.000+00:00Why don't you let people post comments without you...Why don't you let people post comments without you monitoring them? It slows down your blog b/c people can't really have a conversation.<BR/><BR/>Maybe you could appoint someone monitor and give them rights to delete spam and off-track messages.<BR/><BR/>I don't understand what's keeping prices up in LA, Las Vegas, etc. They should be down 10-20% everywhere by now. Then fall another 10-20% this year and next. Until LA is down 50% and lesser bubbles are down 25-30%.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-49222821452453848502007-03-24T17:49:00.000+00:002007-03-24T17:49:00.000+00:00I just watched the trailer for the movie - looks a...I just watched the trailer for the movie - looks awesome. Documentaries are the new black. <BR/><BR/>You can't tell whether the movie spends much time on the housing bubble but the housing bubble is really part of the same problem: too much credit.Paul E. Mathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03719759088047080921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-3796802148077496202007-03-24T17:25:00.000+00:002007-03-24T17:25:00.000+00:00http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/2007...http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/2007-03-24-subprime_N.htm<BR/><BR/>Multiply by 2-3 million and the average loan balance and there you have it, a trillion plus of bad loans that will evaporate tens of billions of equity and erode bank earnings and projected tax revenues for a decade. All the people that say its just a 1-2 year 100 billion dollar problem are fools.<BR/><BR/>The S&L crisis was a 1/2 trillion dollar calamity that took a decade to work out. The scale of this credit debacle is at least 3x in terms of real scale so do not tell me that this will be over any time soon.<BR/><BR/>Rent a house from the debtors with stable mortgage products at a price that keeps them from defaulting, save your money and in a decade buy the place you want for a 1/3 of the price today w/ aq huge down payment and at a reasonable fixed rate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-8313649028150265302007-03-24T17:00:00.000+00:002007-03-24T17:00:00.000+00:00Suicide alone is a very tragic occurence. When pe...Suicide alone is a very tragic occurence. When people feel so lost in their lives because they've been taken in by easy credit and feel they have no other choice is just even more tragic.<BR/><BR/>I've heard of students killing themselves because they got all these easy credit card offers on campus & now cannot keep up w/ the minimums.<BR/><BR/>Our educational system has broken down when we do not prepare the next generation for managing credit, but instead bury them under a mountain of debt to keep them in servitude for their entire lives.<BR/><BR/>The US was the land of opportunity, now its the land of exploitation. The sun has set on the American Dynasty. The chance for a return to the greatness that was America exists, but it requires selfless service and not selfish service. There are too few today willing to make a sacrifice for the greater good and the few that are, are being exploited and destroied for it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-39040022697450246382007-03-24T15:52:00.000+00:002007-03-24T15:52:00.000+00:00Based on what I hear, my "spendaholic" friends bel...Based on what I hear, my "spendaholic" friends believe that "having things" increases their quality of life and they never think that "being in debt" limits their freedom.<BR/><BR/>Until people start believing that "the ability to consume" isn't "real freedom," they'll stay in hock because they believe that's the road to freedom.<BR/><BR/>One of my friends told me the other day that he took out $30,000 in college loans, even though he never got a degree, because the interest rate was low and a good way to buy his "expensive truck" and "other stuff."<BR/><BR/>His girl friend took out $100,000, or so, in college loans, and I just didn't have the heart to ask: "how did she spend it?"<BR/><BR/>So, it became obvious to me that people are starting to think that you can partly pay off your house with low interest rate college loans?<BR/><BR/>my friend told me that he makes the minimum payment on his college loan and, when he dies, the government eats the outstanding balance.<BR/><BR/>never, in my entire life, would I do this and it's mind blowing to see why I'm being pushed out of the market-- because people are using college loans to pay outrageous prices for things and the Fed can "age target" cheap loans.<BR/><BR/>Who knows what else is going on?<BR/><BR/>BTW, I saw a screening of "Maxed Out" and I told Scurlock that he should have had savers in the movie to show people an alternative way to live. Even "Rich Dad" Kiyosaki states that a mortgage is "bad debt" since it has to be <EM>paid off</EM> each month. I thought that was a valid comment since he compared his film to "Super Size Me" and, in that film, Spurlock's wife is a vegetarian and provides a contraian view.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com