tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post534984412845712423..comments2023-12-30T10:06:37.450+00:00Comments on HousingPANIC - The Housing Bubble Blog with an Attitude Problem, 2005 - 2008: Why do desperate homedebtors think they get to set the price?bloggerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06585266242070350399noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-89869678562255135152007-05-03T17:19:00.000+01:002007-05-03T17:19:00.000+01:00Just wanted to respond to Frank, at April 30, 200...Just wanted to respond to Frank, at April 30, 2007 8:05 AM: "I can't wait to see what kind of bailout nonsense Arizona will propose now that the state government has been hijacked by handout-loving liberals."<BR/><BR/>Frank, don't generalize. I could be described as a "handout-loving" individual (though not a "liberal" int he traditional sense) by many, but I'm definitely AGAINST baliing out irresponsible, greedy speculators and homedebtors, just as much as I am against bailing out banks through this type of bailout, supposedly for the benefit of "homeowners". Taxes paid by myself and basically all of us, are ideally a way to finance the welfare of society as a whole; this money should NOT be used to finance individual "investments" or higly risky lending. I'm with you all in rejecting such proposals. <BR/><BR/>But guess what? Politicians will do what they need to do to make a "savior of the masses" name for themselves, and get voted back into office next election term. This housing speculative phenomenon has involved a high volume of Democrats and Democratic-leaning constituents, as much as it has Republican and Republican-leaning individuals. Hence, it's a win-win situation for all of these career politicians. These bailout proposals are perhaps some of the few points on which members of the two most important political parties in this country can still agree on. Hence, I don't see how any of our letters and calls to local govts will do a thing to prevent more and more irresponsible govt spending in this way. That's not to say we shouldn't try....But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for any of that to significantly change the course of events, as they are unfolding already.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-54787130193201889442007-05-01T16:24:00.000+01:002007-05-01T16:24:00.000+01:00Ananymous said:People forget that a market consist...Ananymous said:<BR/><BR/><B><I>People forget that a market consists of buyers and sellers. If they can't agree on a price, then there's no sale. Someone will have to offer me double my current home value to even make me consider moving. It's not the buyers who have all the power.</B></I><BR/><BR/>If you're not selling, and have no interest in selling, then you're not a participant, since your home is not on the market. <BR/><BR/>That's fine, as you're a "buy and hold" homeowner who's bought a HOUSE, not an investment asset. It's NOT people like you who've screwed up the market, and no one is blaming you. You're not a "desparate homedebtor", which is what Keith is talking about.<BR/><BR/>You're actually someone who bought your home to actually live in it (*gasp!*), and you didn't assume a 'toxic' ARM or I/O loan that is essentially gambling on continued price appreciation in order to make those mortgage payments. That is whom he's referring to.<BR/><BR/>You know that your home is not also a retirement plan that'll deliver you to the land of milk and honey in 20 years! Novel concept there, huh?<BR/><BR/>HOWEVER, I'm glad you as a traditional homeowner realizes that any government bail-out of these unqualified buyers will NOT protect YOUR over-inflated equity, as it WON'T. I'm glad you see that government attempts to "save" markets are almost guaranteed to back-fire, getting us ALL in a deeper mire, as we ALL pay for it in the form of MORE national debt that is driving our economy into the dumpster!! That costs EVERYONE, and the idea of helping the fiscally irresponsible to stay in a home they NEVER could afford in the first place at the expense of those like you is absolutely stomach-turning to me.<BR/><BR/>The dollar has hit all-time lows, and there's little doubt that it's because of unrelentless trade deficits, national debt, with the Feds printing money as fast as possible to keep us afloat. That's no answer: a price correction is absolutely mandated, and trying to delay it is like pulling a bandage off a scab slowly, prolonging the pain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-17450020344037115102007-05-01T01:15:00.000+01:002007-05-01T01:15:00.000+01:00Part of the ethos of the era. Feel good narcissism...<I>Part of the ethos of the era. Feel good narcissism. If they "need" or "want" something to be, then it will be, because otherwise that wouldn't be fair.</I><BR/><BR/>In Scientology, it's called "Postulating": "IF I POSTULATE THAT *X* IS SO, THEN IT IS SO!"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-29282301408469224022007-04-30T23:39:00.000+01:002007-04-30T23:39:00.000+01:00I got 98% of my asking price in Phoenix in March i...I got 98% of my asking price in Phoenix in March in this market.<BR/><BR/>Lucky?<BR/><BR/>Naa... I just had the right home for sale for the right buyer.<BR/><BR/>Prices in Phoenix are going up again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-88522151610989249792007-04-30T18:39:00.000+01:002007-04-30T18:39:00.000+01:00No bail out! Call your lawmakers and complain abo...No bail out! Call your lawmakers and complain about it. Tell them that you are being hit twice by using your tax to keep properties artificially high.<BR/><BR/>I do have to differ from some of the other opinions here. I own a home, and I expect to live here forever. I don't care if its price go up or down (actually, if it goes down, I'll probably pay less taxes). I rely on stocks for appreciation, not my home.<BR/><BR/>People forget that a market consists of buyers and sellers. If they can't agree on a price, then there's no sale. Someone will have to offer me double my current home value to even make me consider moving. It's not the buyers who have all the power.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-15093697669260820452007-04-30T18:09:00.000+01:002007-04-30T18:09:00.000+01:00Despite your wishes, sales volume in my area (sout...<I>Despite your wishes, sales volume in my area (south Scottsdale) is double this time last year.</I><BR/><BR/>That's funny, those Camelview Optima condos that investors snatched up for a million dollars each are now renting for $2,000/month.<BR/><BR/>I moved out of south Scottsdale specifically because it has one of the highest crime rates in all of Arizona and after watching my neighbors' houses get burglarized one after another, it was time for me to go.<BR/><BR/>This was only about 2 years ago and it was still really cheap down there, so I'd imagine it's the only area that's selling because people can't afford anything else. And those loans that BofA is handing out to illegals will definitely help south Scottsdale houses to continue selling.<BR/><BR/>www.scottsdale-sucks.com<BR/><BR/>PS: If you want anyone to believe your comments, stop posting as anonymous and show yourself.Frank Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07625929422222490759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-23723061952020921082007-04-30T17:56:00.000+01:002007-04-30T17:56:00.000+01:00bailout by building affordable housing, or even ve...bailout by building affordable housing, or even very very affordable housing and take the averages and time factor to do the work,Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-60933595897964197622007-04-30T16:56:00.000+01:002007-04-30T16:56:00.000+01:00Lieu's email is:Assemblymember.Lieu@assembly.ca.go...Lieu's email is:<BR/><BR/>Assemblymember.Lieu@assembly.ca.govcurlshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07752600082066932253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-37455172884256437252007-04-30T15:51:00.000+01:002007-04-30T15:51:00.000+01:00So will anybody pay the face value (or any amount)...So will anybody pay the face value (or any amount) for the lottery ticket I purchased yesterday? <BR/><BR/>In case you are wondering, no, I didn't win.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-45750668285368635562007-04-30T14:33:00.000+01:002007-04-30T14:33:00.000+01:00The irony is that all the people that were saying ...The irony is that all the people that were saying "Its different this time" were correct. This time its going to be much worse due to the massive amount of fraud and sub-prime/Alt-A negligent lending. It will be a burst RE bubble like no other due to the greater degree of asset price inflation combined with the massive tsunami of foreclosures, the significantly higher level of investor speculation and they huge RE inventory overhang in the form of vacant homes & unsold new inventory. This time prices will be "less sticky" and the shock will be much quicker & deeper. I think Denver is just the harbinger/canary in the mine as to what the aftermath will look like. Vegas, Phoenix, the west coast & FL are next. The Exburbs in the NE are getting hit now & after the psychology of a burst bubble mania ripples in then it will hit the rest of the NE. The MW is already suffering due to old school RE market collapse (job loss & the loss of the commercial base). Good luck.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-63663543726537123372007-04-30T14:18:00.000+01:002007-04-30T14:18:00.000+01:00guy i work with bought a condo in arlington va las...guy i work with bought a condo in arlington va last year for 440k. he has it on the market now for 535k. he got an offer for 499k and turned it down.<BR/><BR/>that guy that made that offer probably doesnt even realize that he is on of the luckiest guys on the planet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-6574448341878034722007-04-30T14:11:00.000+01:002007-04-30T14:11:00.000+01:00"But my house is worth more than that" You hear t..."But my house is worth more than that" You hear this one a lot, and it is worth more only in your mind if buyers think a lower figure.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-36873266306521684282007-04-30T13:05:00.000+01:002007-04-30T13:05:00.000+01:00"My wife and I are relocating to Portland, OR and ..."My wife and I are relocating to Portland, OR and looking at rentals. the FB's are asking for a lot. I hope they get it."<BR/><BR/>What a dork!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-76303576064568779262007-04-30T10:12:00.000+01:002007-04-30T10:12:00.000+01:00Despite your wishes, sales volume in my area (sout...Despite your wishes, sales volume in my area (south Scottsdale) is double this time last year. Prices flat to slightly up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-78717556494493786992007-04-30T09:05:00.000+01:002007-04-30T09:05:00.000+01:00TED LUI (CA assemblyman) and others on the Califor...<I>TED LUI (CA assemblyman) and others on the California banking and finance committee passed a proposal Monday to use money from the Affordable Housing Bond to bail out homeowners who were “victims” of “predatory” financing and can’t make their mortgage payments.</I><BR/><BR/>How about this:<BR/><BR/>When desperate homedebtors apply for the bailout money, they are required to provide proof that they had a licensed attorney review the contracts before they signed them.<BR/><BR/>If they didn't do that, the state turns them down and mails a letter saying, "If you didn't have an attorney explain the contract to you before you signed it, it's your fault. If you couldn't afford to have an attorney review your mortgage contract, you had no business buying a house in the first place."<BR/><BR/>Wishful thinking, I know.<BR/><BR/>I can't wait to see what kind of bailout nonsense Arizona will propose now that the state government has been hijacked by handout-loving liberals.Frank Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07625929422222490759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-88981086439601489182007-04-30T05:47:00.000+01:002007-04-30T05:47:00.000+01:00Sorry I have been gone for a while... I was having...Sorry I have been gone for a while... I was having Password issues...long story anyway:<BR/><BR/>My wife and I are relocating to Portland, OR and looking at rentals. the FB's are asking for a lot. I hope they get it. However chances are they will miss the high season which is summer and find they have no tenant through the winter.<BR/><BR/>Sucks for them. I am in negotiations with a woman who wants to rent a 3/2 new construction for 1K a month. BUT wants me to make it available to RE agents to show.<BR/><BR/>Naturally I presume she is hopeful it will sell soon and thus she won't commit to a lease of any term. Statistically she will be lucky to get a showing a week. So I have to weigh getting a nice place for under market with the inconvenience of playing tour guide every few days against the hassle of trying to make a wise selection from 3300 miles away on a 1 year lease.<BR/><BR/>I figure we will take the deal and blow out as soon as we can better deal her, which I presume will be soon after arriving. Of course we may get lucky and find a diamond in the rough.Veritas Fausthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05276693610912557836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-69825076065450565082007-04-30T04:48:00.000+01:002007-04-30T04:48:00.000+01:00Anonymous said... Greed based on ignorance! April ...Anonymous said... <BR/>Greed based on ignorance! <BR/><BR/>April 29, 2007 7:48 PM <BR/><BR/><BR/>Anonymous said... <BR/>Ignorance based on greed! <BR/><BR/>April 29, 2007 7:48 PM <BR/><BR/><BR/>Two great tastes that taste good together!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-28539414723132371992007-04-30T04:43:00.000+01:002007-04-30T04:43:00.000+01:00Desperate sellers think they can set their price b...<I>Desperate sellers think they can set their price because they don't understand the free market. Even a caveman can figure that out.</I><BR/>++++<BR/>Exactly what I was going to say.<BR/><BR/>And I'm a caveman.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-47486164151757509472007-04-30T03:57:00.000+01:002007-04-30T03:57:00.000+01:00Anon 7:13 29th“TED LUI (CA assemblyman) and othe...Anon 7:13 29th<BR/>“TED LUI (CA assemblyman) and others on the California banking and finance committee passed a proposal Monday to use money from the Affordable Housing Bond to bail out homeowners who were “victims” of “predatory” financing and can’t make their mortgage payments."<BR/><BR/>The line I heard last week for the first time was:<BR/><BR/>Privatize Profits, Socialize Risk<BR/><BR/>It seems that Mr. Lui heard (and adopted) that philosophy long ago!<BR/>(Maybe he needs a 'life coach?')Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-88888999621704131142007-04-30T03:07:00.000+01:002007-04-30T03:07:00.000+01:00What I love is when the realtors try to say not to...What I love is when the realtors try to say not to insult the seller with a so-called "low-ball offer", as if it would be rude to threaten the seller's fragile ego by challenging their 2005-based price expectations. <BR/><BR/>So why are sellers not concerned with not insulting an informed buyer with unrealistic prices, which are elevated primarily based on the false expectation of future appreciation? We've shown that claim ("real estate only goes UP"), to be pure BS, and we're seeing at least a 10% appreciation in most markets in the next year. <BR/><BR/>So WHY exactly are they asking people to pay a price derived on 2001-2006 results, now in 2007?<BR/><BR/>Haven't the sellers heard the old mantra, "past performance is no guarantee of future returns"? Criminy, they're trying to see a speculative investment like a lottery ticket AFTER the lottery was held, and we've found the ticket is a LOSER of an investment at this point. Worse, buying right now for most of us is a guaranteed bleeding investment in short-term (next 5-10 years).<BR/><BR/>I guess in their minds, the old chestnut "real estate always goes UP" outweighs the even more universal rule of finance that "what goes up, must go down".<BR/><BR/>Screw em': I won't even waste time trying to teach the fiscally uneducated masses who are asking unrealistic prices what kind of market we're now in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-9054852097310345442007-04-30T03:03:00.000+01:002007-04-30T03:03:00.000+01:00The people here in the Northwest think they're goi...The people here in the Northwest think they're going to remain unscathed by the downturn.<BR/><BR/>It's that egocentric Portland/Seattle thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-232491627630773782007-04-30T00:55:00.000+01:002007-04-30T00:55:00.000+01:00Even a caveman can figure that out. Hahahaha one o...Even a caveman can figure that out. <BR/><BR/>Hahahaha one of those Gieco comercials with the cavemen might be just the trick to teach the stupid home debtors that they are f**cked when it comes to pricing! That way they might pay attention!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-42121367033823915502007-04-29T23:48:00.000+01:002007-04-29T23:48:00.000+01:00Desperate sellers think they can set their price b...Desperate sellers think they can set their price because they don't understand the free market. Even a caveman can figure that out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-40904498892140571592007-04-29T23:28:00.001+01:002007-04-29T23:28:00.001+01:00It's been such a strong seller's market the last f...It's been such a strong seller's market the last few years, I think it's going to be a while before the FB's really accept that the party is over. I hear people talk about their "wishing prices" as if anything less is "giving the house away."<BR/><BR/>Just wait for the foreclosures to add stress to the market. Maybe by then sellers will realize it is NOT the buyer's job to make them financially whole or happy or anything else.Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00536167771093109826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-85727695545222469182007-04-29T23:28:00.000+01:002007-04-29T23:28:00.000+01:00I'm going to buy at the bottom and personally supe...I'm going to buy at the bottom and personally supervise the "booting of the squatter to the street" by the sheriff.<BR/><BR/>I'm disgusted with the prices around here because they are preventing me from "moving up". I can afford almost any house but I'm not going to buy an asset that's going to lose half its value in the next few years so I'm stuck.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com