tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post3507494432624417796..comments2023-12-30T10:06:37.450+00:00Comments on HousingPANIC - The Housing Bubble Blog with an Attitude Problem, 2005 - 2008: PIGS FLY ALERT!!! George Bush is My Hero as he punks Reid and Schumer's stupid and un-American housing gambler bailout planbloggerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06585266242070350399noreply@blogger.comBlogger90125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-21026818376574685892008-02-29T18:17:00.000+00:002008-02-29T18:17:00.000+00:00In a chapter11 re-reorgnization filing, equity hol...<I>In a chapter11 re-reorgnization filing, equity holders are wiped out. Creditors are in posession of the company, with new lender having the first claim.</I><BR/><BR/>Wrong. They get the claim that the judge is willing to provide to them. In Chapter 11 cases like Enron and Pan Am, creditors often get nothing at all and the company dies anyway.<BR/><BR/>In situations like Delta Air Lines' bankruptcy, debts were eliminated and creditors received a few pennies on the dollar in stock in the new company.<BR/><BR/>Similar arrangements for personal creditors would have the house revalued at market, with the bank maintaining some lien at a much lower amount after a bankruptcy is filed.<BR/><BR/>Banks whining about this mess are half the problem. They lent people 8x to 10x their salaries on an overvalued house and now bitch that "it's unfair" that their poor credit underwriting left them in the lurch. They're like the dumbass banks who make 29.99% APR credit cards with $100,000 limits available to welfare moms -- they're culpable by dint of their own incompetence.<BR/><BR/>And like it or not, far-right-wing idiots, America is not a country where debt slavery is permitted. By all means, foreclose on the borrowers and whatnot, but this bullshit about "eternal contracts" is just that -- bullshit.<BR/><BR/>As for "the rule of law" and "no bailouts," look at all the unconstitutional laws your party has implemented in the last 8 years. As for bailouts, the Iraq War has brought Halliburton back from the brink of collapse, hasn't it?<BR/><BR/>And what about the airline bailouts?<BR/><BR/>And Amtrak?<BR/><BR/>All under Republican Congresses.<BR/><BR/>The earlier poster was right -- partisan jackassery clouds the mind. How any Republican could argue his guy "opposed bailouts" is beyond belief.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-31997765259780408542008-02-28T19:36:00.000+00:002008-02-28T19:36:00.000+00:00From Gary Shilling"We haven’t had a year-on-year d...From Gary Shilling<BR/><BR/><I><BR/>"We haven’t had a year-on-year decline in house prices since the 1930s. But the Case-Shiller index today shows the first drop occurred in December.”<BR/><BR/>American consumers were living in a fantasy land, Shiller says.<BR/><BR/>"People thought house prices would rise forever. It was a piggy bank that kept filling. Keep borrowing as much as you can and buy the biggest house you can possibly swing. You will always be bailed out by rising prices.<BR/><BR/>"That game is over, and it’s a tremendous shock to people.”<BR/><BR/></I><BR/><BR/>Now the leftist dailykooks want to bail out these morons so they can do it again in 5 yearsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-72113428804120645832008-02-28T17:09:00.000+00:002008-02-28T17:09:00.000+00:00So when the prices go back up, do the mortgage fra...So when the prices go back up, do the mortgage fraudsters get to keep the newfound equity and HELOC to the hilt again? When prices crash then they will get the judge to lower the mortgage again? Nice game if you think the owners of the debt will just sit there and let it happen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-31158286573378170452008-02-28T16:10:00.000+00:002008-02-28T16:10:00.000+00:00I just got back from "Your Muslim Bakery" in Oakla...I just got back from "Your Muslim Bakery" in Oakland, after seeing Obama and his sermon I just had to partake. Nation of Islam Louis Farrakhan told me he is the messiah.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-28485007103421529052008-02-28T15:21:00.001+00:002008-02-28T15:21:00.001+00:00The Dailykooks website is now 100% behind the bail...The Dailykooks website is now 100% behind the bailout for flippers and speculators.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-40805832872392054142008-02-28T15:21:00.000+00:002008-02-28T15:21:00.000+00:00Since most of these mortgages are owned by foreign...Since most of these mortgages are owned by foreigners, would this in effect be seizing their assets after the contract was signed? Will their governments be seizing American assets in retaliation? How about all thes pension funds who bought mortgages?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-70479349551364867972008-02-28T15:13:00.000+00:002008-02-28T15:13:00.000+00:00As long as the industry - and not taxpayers - are ...<I>As long as the industry - and not taxpayers - are eating the losses, I'm okay with FBs getting to keep their homes. </I><BR/><BR/>So you're ok with people committing fraud on their mortgage applications and being rewarded for it? That shows the corrupt criminal mind of most liberalsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-69076662107220096922008-02-28T07:36:00.000+00:002008-02-28T07:36:00.000+00:00"Cram down the balance on the people truly taken a..."Cram down the balance on the people truly taken advantage of, and forclose on the speculators, fraudsters and gamblers."<BR/><BR/>So tell us what magic touchstone do you have to tell the two categories apart?<BR/><BR/>The most efficient way to punish the banksters is simply walking away and rent. People who are "truly taken advantage of" would be far better off renting a house of the right size in the current market condition wehre rent is less than half the cost ofa fully amortized mortgage plus property tax. This whole "cram down" thing is yet another pathetic attempt at rescuing the banks: so that the houses don't have to come onto the market and expose the worthlessness of the banks' level-three assets.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-21618918343045905312008-02-28T07:30:00.000+00:002008-02-28T07:30:00.000+00:00Many posters obviously don't understand bankruptcy...Many posters obviously don't understand bankruptcy laws:<BR/><BR/>1. In a chapter11 re-reorgnization filing, equity holders are wiped out. Creditors are in posession of the company, with new lender having the first claim. <BR/><BR/>2. Commercial loans have much higher interest rates than fully amotized residential home mortgages precisely because commercial creditors can find themselves coming behind new lenders who lend new money after Chapter11 filing.<BR/><BR/>3. It's ludicrous to modify laws to put equity holders ahead of creditors . . . that would be plain robbery. Equity means asset minus liability, what's left is equity. Home "owners" are equity holders.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-85334604493324640532008-02-28T06:45:00.000+00:002008-02-28T06:45:00.000+00:00We could do without a lot of what's in that bill, ...We could do without a lot of what's in that bill, Keith, but the bankruptcy change is a good idea. It wouldn't cost taxpayers, and FBs would still be pretty F'ed.<BR/><BR/>As long as the industry - and not taxpayers - are eating the losses, I'm okay with FBs getting to keep their homes. I want more affordable housing, not burning houses.<BR/><BR/>At the very least, lenders have no business getting bankruptcy relief while lobbying to keep borrowers from getting it too. The fact that Bush and the industry are joining forces to block this thing ought to speak volumes.Rob R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01042541530187059468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-24120843649093287402008-02-28T05:38:00.000+00:002008-02-28T05:38:00.000+00:00But 4 Billion for war - that's ok.No money for edu...But 4 Billion for war - that's ok.<BR/><BR/>No money for education or health care... check<BR/><BR/><BR/>Money for war....check<BR/>--------------------------------<BR/><BR/>no money for education or health care? what planet do you live on?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-1947441140185885802008-02-28T05:28:00.000+00:002008-02-28T05:28:00.000+00:00Can a Judge change the provisions of a signed cont...Can a Judge change the provisions of a signed contract?<BR/>In Bankruptcy, yes, but for mortgage default?<BR/>Well, yes. I guess...<BR/><BR/>But for a mortgage contract that has been wrapped up and sold to unsuspecting customers (unsuspecting FOREIGN customers) <BR/>Those very same customers who trusted certain agencies to protect them against fraud and deceit.<BR/>Those same customers who now own these contracts, lock stock and barrel?????<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Legislation will need to pass to allow Judges to alter these, now foreign owned, contracts.<BR/>If those laws are passed, we are slapping the face of those we already betrayed.<BR/>Financial Armageddon.<BR/><BR/>Did I spell that right?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-79988168798058723392008-02-28T05:08:00.000+00:002008-02-28T05:08:00.000+00:00Anything that the Government decides to do will be...Anything that the Government decides to do will be, "too little, too late", like usual.<BR/><BR/>Unless somebody really smart, comes up with really smart ideas, REALLY, REALLY QUICK, this looks like an EPIC thing starting to happen.<BR/><BR/><BR/>You know, like something the studies of Economics will be writing about for the next 100, er, 1000 years?<BR/><BR/>Off topic,<BR/>Looks like we all know where "THE MONEY" is going, huh?<BR/>Funny, this inflation thing only started getting serious soon after those silly Hedge fund problems.<BR/>Anyone connect the dots on that one?<BR/><BR/>Don't worry about housing and the propositions thrown around by those in charge.<BR/>Worry about the future price rises that are coming.<BR/>Ten dollar loaf of bread is not far away.<BR/>Gas will be 4 soon enough.<BR/><BR/>The Government is like a magician.<BR/>Everyone is looking at the wrong hand!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-76744050198910409112008-02-28T04:55:00.000+00:002008-02-28T04:55:00.000+00:00another ANON poster said,"What difference is it to...another ANON poster said,<BR/>"What difference is it to the lender if it forecloses on a $100 loan and realizes $80 on the property sale as opposed to having the loan balance reduced from $100 to $80?<BR/><BR/>February 27, 2008 3:06 PM"<BR/><BR/>The difference is;<BR/> in example 1, the asset is now "off the books". <BR/>While in your example #2, the asset AND it's debt, (or OBLIGATION TIED TO THAT ASSET) still exists.<BR/>If that asset is a depreciating asset, (we are talking houses here, no?), <BR/>I would think there is a BIG difference.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-56596871011868231112008-02-28T04:53:00.000+00:002008-02-28T04:53:00.000+00:00Dubya Shrub + Penis Shooter = "Little Boy" + "Fat ...Dubya Shrub + Penis Shooter = "Little Boy" + "Fat Man"<BR/><BR/>This nation and its Americano citizen is as toasted as a snapper turtle skewered on a Chinese bamboo stick from mouth to ass all sizzling, sputtering, roasting nicely, juices dripping, fat popping over a bed of white hot charcoal grill.<BR/><BR/>Americano = Grilled Snapper Turtle<BR/><BR/>Heeeee... Haaaaa... Arrrrr...<BR/><BR/>So, tell me, does the average Americano take it enough in the rear orifice yet by the forceful penetration of "Little Boy" + "Fat Man", or do you want more "Enter The Dragon" ?<BR/><BR/>Americano = Being Entered By The Dragon up the Kazook<BR/><BR/>Heeeee... Haaaaa... Arrrrr...<BR/><BR/>And all of you retards, ass-head that voted for SHRUB and worshipped his ASS over the last 8 years, guess what, the chicken are coming home to roost on your head-ass. The ancient snapper turtle probably have more brain cell than you and your children combined together. Are you sorry yet ? Do you feel ashamed and stupid about your shallow thinking, narrow-minded love and swoon for DUBYA ? Do you, do you, do you ???AndrewHachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05114474456963405679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-4459271926236387772008-02-28T04:09:00.000+00:002008-02-28T04:09:00.000+00:00Hey, Anon February 27, 2008 7:53 PM:What Ed said m...Hey, Anon February 27, 2008 7:53 PM:<BR/><BR/>What Ed said made perfect sense. You have nothing to contribute so you sling insults. Why don't you come up with a few coherent thoughts and check back in?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-8586807004656739562008-02-28T04:04:00.000+00:002008-02-28T04:04:00.000+00:00Democrats suck; every last one of them.Republicans...Democrats suck; every last one of them.<BR/><BR/>Republicans Rock!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-36183520262205885582008-02-28T02:27:00.000+00:002008-02-28T02:27:00.000+00:00Isn't changing the rules after the mortgage contra...<I>Isn't changing the rules after the mortgage contracts have already been made called "Ex Post Facto" law - and isn't that prohibited by the U.S Constitution?<BR/><BR/>Also, doesn't changing the interest rate and terms of payback on the mortgage reduce the value of the mortgage? Isn't the federal government prohibited from taking away something of value by the Fourth Amendment?</I><BR/><BR/>Yeah, I am sure the corporate bankruptcies that do all these things are evil to you too, and keep you equally awake at night.<BR/><BR/>Gawd. Idiots.<BR/><BR/>Bush and his owners bent over backwards to liberalize corporate bankruptcies (which included TONS of fraud, including companies that planned to file knowingly lying to suppliers to get one last round of supplies before screwing them), and all you can talk about is how the middle class should get stuck with an unchangable contract while any old company with a lawyer should be able to void any contract it wants in Chapter 11.<BR/><BR/>I'm all against bailouts for homedebtors, but I'm also against gaming the bankruptcy system so that banks can set up unchangeable terms for personal borrowers and easily voided terms for corporate lenders. Let the bankruptcy system be the same for everyone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-11930363335455804792008-02-28T02:18:00.000+00:002008-02-28T02:18:00.000+00:00A MUST READNouriel Roubini, Professor of Economics...A MUST READ<BR/><BR/>Nouriel Roubini, Professor of Economics at at the Stern School of Business, NY University testified to the House of Representatives’ Financial Services Committee<BR/><BR/>http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/financialsvcs_dem/roubini022608.pdfAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-21121372762006382782008-02-28T01:58:00.000+00:002008-02-28T01:58:00.000+00:00NO TAX PAYER BAIL OUT!Stand the FuC# back and let ...NO TAX PAYER BAIL OUT!<BR/><BR/>Stand the FuC# back and let the chips fall where they may where the housing market is concerned. <BR/><BR/>Any alternative is so fraught with moral hazard that it cannot even be considered!!!<BR/><BR/>Yeahhh, lets just destroy the sanctity of CONTRACT LAW in America...what a genius idea!!<BR/><BR/>GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR---Is this a bad nightmare or WHAT?!?!<BR/>Our founding fathers are turning over in their GRAVES right now!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-2884401938459341812008-02-28T01:55:00.000+00:002008-02-28T01:55:00.000+00:00Dear Ed,thank you for not saying something really ...Dear Ed,<BR/>thank you for not saying something really stupid or fecklessly contrarian today.<BR/><BR/>Your pal,<BR/>AnonymousAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-59735955381907784172008-02-28T01:31:00.000+00:002008-02-28T01:31:00.000+00:00We know at least 30% of the population will suppor...We know at least 30% of the population will support a bailout. Watch this CNN video on the coming disaster. No wonder so many on this board are supporting a bailout now. They must be drowning in mortgage debt. Watch the fat cow at the end begging for a government handout so she can stay in the house she paid $400,000 for: so we're now bailing out people who paid 5x gross income on a house they could never reasonably afford.<BR/><BR/>http://tinyurl.com/25qcqwAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-55933668275426874212008-02-28T00:46:00.000+00:002008-02-28T00:46:00.000+00:00God Keith, I thought you were smarter than this to...God Keith, I thought you were smarter than this too. (see Anon 2/27/08 11:12 am) Jeezzzz! How did you get this far convincing me you knew a lot about what you are blogging about. Shame on you for harping on people and topics that you have not done your homework on. And then you got everyone on the bandwagon. You are worse than the talking heads. <BR/><BR/>I don't believe in bailouts, but this is not as big a bailout as what Henry Paulson, Bernanke, and Bush has been proposing. And shame on you Keith for calling Bush your hero. Who is your God then, Alan Greenspan? What a joke this post is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-11777508799488188892008-02-27T23:51:00.000+00:002008-02-27T23:51:00.000+00:00Honest working citizens who paid their share in ta...Honest working citizens who paid their share in taxes without entitlement programs to rely on, had a very difficult time moving into a new house - if they were even able to do so.<BR/><BR/>There should be no bail-out plan for house-flippers, speculators and anyone responsible for pushing house prices into the stratosphere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18675105.post-53385466979840938732008-02-27T23:03:00.000+00:002008-02-27T23:03:00.000+00:00** FDIC NEWS FLASH * * The FDIC Is Paying $180K+ ...** FDIC NEWS FLASH * * <BR/><BR/>The FDIC Is Paying $180K+ For New Employees (getting ready for MASS US BANK FAILURES)!!!!<BR/><BR/>** In The WSJ News **<BR/>FDIC to Add Staff as <BR/>Bank Failures Loom<BR/>February 26, 2008;<BR/><BR/>The FDIC, which insures bank deposit accounts at more than 8,000 financial institutions, are bracing for well over 100 bank failures in the next 12 to 24 months, with concentrations in Rust Belt states like Michigan and Ohio, and the states that are suffering severe housing-market problems like California, Florida, and Georgia," said Jaret Seiberg, Washington policy analyst for financial-services firm Stanford Group.<BR/><BR/>Such new positions would require "very frequent overnight travel," the posting said, and would pay up to $180,770.<BR/>***********<BR/><BR/>Full article: http://tinyurl.com/2npclk <BR/><BR/>Wow, not a bad gig! Traveling around the US writing out checks to all the bush and cheney victims!<BR/><BR/>Bwaaaaaaaaa!!<BR/><BR/>***************Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com